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Unread 06-21-2019, 09:15 PM   #1
Azzurri
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Exterior Wall Tile Job - Doable?

Hi,

Been a long time! My current project is enclosing a covered patio. The heavy lifting is done, and it is well on its way to becoming a 3-season porch. As you can see from the photo, there is a generous roof overhang, but nonethless, the walls will be hit by weather.

I am in Boston, so I get all kinds of weather.

In any case, since the picture was taken last week, I have nailed the 5/8" thick wall sheathing to the framing and installed Tyvex house wrap over that. Not that there is a lot of wall area, as this will be mostly windows.

So I want to use a 4" X 8" outdoor-rated PORCELAIN tile on whatever wall space there is, in order to make this stick out from the cedar clapboard that is all around the house.

Unless advised by this forum otherwise, my plan is to install 1/4" thick cement board or hardi-backer over the Tyvex and then apply the tiles on that using appropriate thin set. For the outside corner, I would use 4.5" composite trim, such that the tiles on either wall do not contact each other.

Will this work and enable the tiles to hold up over time? Could I (should I) rip off the Tyvex and tile directly over the plywood? Or is there something missing that is ESSENTIAL? (e.g., a membrane)? I prefer to not have a thick layer of materials, including the tiles so that the finished product does not extend much beyond the trim around the widows that I will install.

Any and all advise is much appreciated! Thanks.
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Unread 06-21-2019, 09:29 PM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
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Hardibacker is not rated for exterior.

What about removing the Tyvek, screwing 1/2" Durock to the wall, then applying a waterproofing layer like Laticrete Hydroban?

Are you using pressure sensitive flashing tape around the jambs and windows?

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Unread 06-21-2019, 09:43 PM   #3
cx
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Welcome back, Aldo.

If you'll add that geographic location to your User Profile it will remain permanently in view to aid in answering some types of questions. If you don't, that information will likely be lost before we leave this page.

I believe you'll find that Hardiebacker is not approved for exterior use in your climate zone, even in vertical applications. You might wanna look into more appropriate CBUs available in your area.

Were I you, I'd eliminate the Tyvek, but it may not be harmful as it is highly permeable. You can install your CBU as you plan, although I doubt you'll find a manufacturer's recommendation for that application. You'll want to be sure to adhere to their fastener schedule at a minimum. I would then recommend a direct bonded waterproofing membrane over the CBU and tile properly into your fenestrations. Then your tile installed using an appropriate thinset mortar.

Not sure how you plan to trim your windows, but no matter how thick your wall areas turn out, you should have no difficulty finding a trim material of an appropriate thickness for the look you prefer.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 06-21-2019, 11:21 PM   #4
Azzurri
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Thanks for the quick responses. So far:
  • The Tyvex would be pointless, and so I can remove that.
  • Hardie backer is out, Cement Board (Durock) is in (or maybe, see last question below)
  • I'll apply Red Gard as a membrane, only becuase I am familair with it, having used it before for my custom shower.
Follow-up questions/comments:

@ Tool Guy: I bought a roll of flashing tape, but not really sure I am going to use it. Reason being, I installed 2 new construction windows (with nail fin) and a sliding door on the other end of the house (what was previously a covered deck that I made into my man cave) and -- out of sheer ignorance at the time -- I neither applied a bead of caulk between the flange and sheathing nor any type of falshing whatsoever (and mind you there is NO roof overhang there) and I've never had any water issues. That was 13 years ago. All I did was install a drip edge above the windows and door unit, and caulk where the cedar clapboard meets the vertical vinyl window frame. (I did not add additional trim...just went with the embedded trim that is part of the windows/door unit). This time I AM going to apply the silicon caulk, though! Just for good measure. :-)

May I ask why you are asking? Is the concern regarding the tiling aspect, or just for mitigating potential water penetration, regardless of whether I tiled or used clapboard?

Second question to you: why 1/2" CBU as opposed to 1/4"? Since it is going over plywood, rather than directly to the suds, I'm not needing the extra rigidity provided by the thicker option, right? Isn't the purpose for the CBU just to have a better surface to tile onto?

@ CK: May I ask why you wrote "...although I doubt you'll find a manufacturer's recommendation for that application...." According to the USG website, Durcok is indacted for exterior use.

To all: do I even need the CBU? Is it superfluous if I simply apply Red Gard directly on the plywood sheathing, and tile directly onto that? Or I imagine I really risk the tiles shifting, esp. becuase of the freeze-thaw cycle, if I don't use the CBU?

Thanks again.
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Unread 06-22-2019, 07:23 AM   #5
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I consider myself a window flashing expert. I have lived in this house for 16 years and I've had to address the issue on one side of my house that faces hurricane winds and rain. I have had to replace this entire wall system two times including removing the 19 windows, the first time was replacing all the windows. Saying you do not have any problem with your other windows and doors after 15 years means nothing to me. there may be damaged and rot under those areas that has not caused the leak directly into the house that you see. but my concern is what happens if water gets in around your windows and behind that tile bit CBU? the freeze-thaw cycle damage cannot be stopped by any man-made or natural materials on this Earth. I suggest you spend lots of time on Google understanding the most current modern flashing methods for a window and door installation.
I think no one likes the quarter inch CBU because it's just too wimpy to attach properly and provide a solid plane.
as far as the windows go I would want you to imagine them being a shower and you need to make everything so waterproof you cannot believe it. in my case one side of my house is like the bow of a ship at Sea in the ocean during the most trying of storms. I suggest using these corner pieces for your window flashing.
https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Vycorne...98583904&psc=1
I suggest going with double flashing. But I don't understand how you would install your windows before CBU and prevent water penetration between the window in the back of the CBU.
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Unread 06-24-2019, 02:23 PM   #6
Azzurri
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So I did the flashing thing. Spent $19 bucks on a 90' roll. Between the roof overhang, silicon caulk under the nailing fins, and the flashing tape (both UNDER the window, and OVER the window fin), I think we're more than safe.

As for the tile...maybe I'll just go with regular siding...but am still looking for somehting different...
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Unread 06-24-2019, 02:51 PM   #7
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Thanks Aldo that window flashing look okay. I really liked seeing the flashing on top of the nailing fin on the top 3 sides.
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