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Unread 09-02-2010, 12:50 PM   #1
DRB
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Basement Bath Re-Model?Advice Needed

With the advice from this forum my upstairs bath came out great. Now it time for the basement bath and a new set of problems which I am sure you pros can point me in the right direction.

First of what I have is concrete floor that had linolieum on it. I scraped it and so far just the top layer of vinyl came off. The felt paper and glue is still on. What would be the best way to get this clean and ready for tile?

The floor will be 12x24 porcelain on ditra. So my guess after cleaning the floor is unmodified thinset, then the ditra followed by unmodofied thinset and then the tile. Is this correct?

Another problem is that the toliet flg is broken. What would the best to repair replace this?

And the last problem for now is the tub drain. The hole fills with groung water. Do I just put plastic in the hole, throw some gravel on top and just connect the line/drain?

Hpefuly the pics are attached and you can see what I mean.

Thanks in advance for all the help this forum provides.

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Unread 09-02-2010, 01:26 PM   #2
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Keep scraping until the glue and paper are gone. A wallpaper steamer might help as would hot water with a little soap poured over the paper.

Use un-modified thinset to set the Ditra, and to set the tile on the Ditra.

I think I'd go ahead and dig that flange and closet bend out and replace them both. This gives you the opportunity to get a new flange at the proper location on top of the tile.

On the drain, I think I'd connect the p-trap, back fill with gravel to the bottom of the old slab, cover the gravel with some plastic, then patch the slab. Use thinset as a bonding agent for the new concrete. Mix it runnier than normal and paint the edges of the old concrete. Pour your new concrete in immediately.
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Unread 09-03-2010, 05:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Keep scraping until the glue and paper are gone. A wallpaper steamer might help as would hot water with a little soap poured over the paper.
No wallpaper steamer yet but hot water and soap still a very slow go. Anything I can rent. A tile stripper won't work will it? How about chemicals, something like murick acid?

Quote:
I think I'd go ahead and dig that flange and closet bend out and replace them both.
I really would hate to do this, but will if the only way that will last. I was hopping for some kind of repair like cutting off just the flg and glueing new one in. Also thought of trying to tap old flg and screw and glue a spacer to that.

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On the drain
My question on this is, Would you fill the concrete around the p-trap or should I leave a hole around it.

Again many thanks for the advice and input.
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Unread 09-03-2010, 07:33 AM   #4
lasvegaslenny
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You could rent a demo hammer from Homer with a floor scraping blade. I like to hold the demo hammer up almost vertical tilting the unit back towards me just enough so it moves forward. The blade looks like this. Also helps to keep a grinder handy to put a nice sharp edge on the blade.
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Unread 09-07-2010, 07:23 AM   #5
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For cleaning the glue/paperbacking I found Spider Scrappers, a blade that fits a recproicating saw works pretty good.

My plan for the flg is to use tapcon concrete screws and the picture spacer ring. I like to be sure on the height of the flg to be set so I have a few quick questions.

What size towel do I use? 1/2 x 1/2 on both layers and burn the back of tile?

How much thickness do you think I will get with thinset, ditra, thinset, tile [3/8] ? Just want to make sure I don't set the flg to high up.

Thanks
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Unread 09-07-2010, 07:39 AM   #6
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Daren, if you are installing flange extenders with Tapcons into the slab, wait until the tile is set and then you'll know exactly how high you need to go.
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Unread 09-07-2010, 12:56 PM   #7
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What would be the best size trowel to use?


I still would prefer to set the flg before the floor. I only want to use one spacer, I have one 1/4" thick and one 1/2" thick. I would feel more confindent to do it first. I am thinking put the 1/2 spacer down first and if it is to high just unscrew the Tapcons and put the smaller flg down.

The kid [plumber] is in town and will set/fix the toliet flg but will be long gone before I get the floor set. The tile and ditra = 1/2", I just need to guess what 2 layers of thinset will =.

Thanks for your time.

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Unread 09-07-2010, 01:37 PM   #8
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A 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 inch square notch trowel will probably be required to set those big tiles. This will leave about 1/4" of thinset when properly smooshed down, not counting any that you may add to the backs of the tiles. You may find a 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 inch square notch trowel may work, if the floor and tiles are flat enough. This will leave about 3/16" of thinset.

Ditra goes down with a much smaller notch, something like a 1/4 x 3/16 or 5/16 x 5/16 inch V-notch or a 1/8 x 1/8 inch square notch. Count on Ditra being about 5/32" to 3/16" thick when installed.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 01:10 PM   #9
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Do the big box stores carry un-modified thinset. What are the brand names I can't seem to find any. I use to buy from the Daltile store but they no longer carry Kerabond.

After searching tru the forums I see some seem to think Lowes Megabond is the same as Laticrete 317. Is this true? I ve used Megabond in the past and it comes with a additive [or one is recommended] so would it be ok to use if I just don't use the additive?

My other options are Versabond, I think I seen it at HD; or I have about 25 pounds of Kerabond with a experation date of 5/2010.

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Unread 09-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #10
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OK, I found DitraSet so I should be good. Reading directions it says mix with an additive and then further it intructs to mix with water only. I take it water only would be correct for both ditra to concrete and the poricilien to the ditra?

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Unread 09-18-2010, 03:53 PM   #11
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An update with another question.

The kid [plumber in training] came over with his plumber friend. The friend did not want to do the spacer ring anchor in the cement [he felt it was the wrong way to go at it]. So what they did was use a tool called a "socket saver" This tool was a 3" drill bit that just drilled out the toliet flg but left the pipe. Then they glue in a piece of 3" sch 40 and will cut off after the floor is done.

The question I have is that he wants me to leave the toliet flg on top of the finished tile instead of flush with it. I know this is wrong and told him but he said it would not be a problem with the height. He wants the tile under the flg for more support.

What would you do?

Thanks Again
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Unread 09-19-2010, 06:42 AM   #12
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My code (Minnesota) says flange can be either with bottom surface on top of finished floor or completely supported on sturdy subfloor. So by code you are both right. However, most pros prefer the flange on top of the tile and screwed through it into the subfloor. That way you avoid having to use fat wax rings or other bodges that can lead to leaking down the road.

The plumber is right, even if he is just a kid.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 04:30 PM   #13
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Ditra is now down, so he are a few new ?'s.

After finishing the ditra I had a little bit of thinset left. I used it to fill up some of the waffles in the ditra, about a thrid of the floor's perimeter. Now do I have to finish the room by filling the rest of the waffles up and then tile, or can I just go ahead and tile?

Also I don't have enough Ditraset to finish the floor? Dirtaset is pricey so if I buy another bag would I be able to use it on the tub/shower walls [cement backerboard] ? Otherwise my thought was to buy Versabond and mix it with the Ditraset.

The last ? [for now] is I don't have to let the Ditra set for 24 hours before I tile do I ? I know normaly you can tile right away but I am not sure by filling up some of the waffles if that changed anything.

Thanks for the time.
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Unread 09-20-2010, 04:34 AM   #14
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Daren, you do not want to start a chemical engineering career on your floor. Do not mix brands or types of thinset unless directed by the manufacturer or have done this as a test under controlled conditions. If you run out of Ditraset, switch to Versabond if you want. It seems that you may only need another bag or 2 to finish. The difference in cost will eventually get lost in the bigger picture, and you'll lose Schluter's warranty. Something to think about.

Filling the waffles is an optional step. If you did it in one area, it doesn't mean you have to do it everywhere. Your choice.

If you pre-fill the waffles, you need to either set the tiles right away, or you need to let the thinset cure before proceeding. 12 hours would be the minimum, but 24 hours is preferrable. If you get on the re-filled areas too soon, you'll likely break up the thinset and interfere with the mechanical bond with the Ditra.
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Unread 09-20-2010, 05:04 AM   #15
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Thanks for the good quick advice. I don't mind paying for the Ditraset, it seems to be a very good product. I will buy another bag as long as I can use the remaining amount [my guess 3/4 of a bag] on the shower walls. I think I can, and it looks by the instructions I would just mix it with water.

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