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Unread 12-11-2008, 11:47 AM   #1
Big Jim
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Big Jim's never ending bathroom project

Tore out the old shower walls of tile with mastic on wall board (couldn't tell if it was green broad...but had no leaks and no vapor barrier.) I installed hardi-backer on the shower wall studs about 1/4" above the shower tray and am ready to tape. Spoke to the hardi customer service line and they said there was no need for a waterproofer nor vapor barrier unless required by code and that the thin-set and tile were all I needed. Not so sure after reading all the forum topics/replies.

Questions.

1. Should I tape and add a waterproofer?

2. Do I need to caulk any of the seams and corners before I tape?

3. Should I calk the gap between the hardi and the pan?

4. Should I use a metal outside corner bead where the hardi meets wallboard? (had to remove the old bead when demoing the old walls.)

Will have more questions when I get to the tiling part.

Great site...thanks to all for your input.

Last edited by ddmoit; 01-14-2009 at 01:45 PM. Reason: requested title change
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Unread 12-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #2
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Welcome, Jim.

Hardi thinks their board is sufficiently waterproof; tile industry doesn't. Industry standards for wet areas call for a moisture barrier behind the wall board or a waterproofing membrane on the face. Up to you who's guidelines you follow.

1. Two different subjects. You must tape and fill all the CBU joints per manufacturer's instructions. Waterproofing: see above.

2. I certainly wouldn't. See #1.

3. What kinda "pan"?

4. No metal bead if you're gonna tile the corner.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-11-2008, 02:46 PM   #3
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Thanks for the advice. I'll get some of that red guard stuff after I tape.

I was referring to the 3' by 3' fiberglass (??) shower pan..no tile, just some white whatever material. The pan is not one of those "fancy" ones that you have to build and tile over.

Thanks
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Unread 12-11-2008, 07:50 PM   #4
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If you are going to Red Guard you might want to prime the Hardi before you apply it, or it will peel off real easy. last time I called Custom they suggested to use a diluted mix I'm not sure what it was now (We don't use hardi) like 10 water to 1 Red Guard for the prime coat, maybe.
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Unread 12-11-2008, 08:43 PM   #5
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Custom's recommended recipe for RedGard primer is four parts water to one part RedGard, Jesse.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-11-2008, 09:30 PM   #6
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Good to know CX.
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Unread 12-12-2008, 11:30 AM   #7
Big Jim
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Thanks for the follow-up on the red guard application.

Should I waterproof BEFORE I tape or just make sure the hardi is damp enough so it doesn't "suck" the water out of the thin set that's going over the tape?

Do I need to caulk the 1/4" gap between the fiberglass (??) shower tray and the hardi? Any special caulk I should use for this purpose?
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Unread 12-12-2008, 11:52 AM   #8
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Hello BJ.....

Quote:
BJ asked..... Should I waterproof BEFORE I tape
No.... imbed your alkali resistant tape with thinset, let it all dry.... than redguard.

Quote:
BJ asked......Do I need to caulk the 1/4" gap between the fiberglass (??) shower tray and the hardi?
I assume your tile will cover this 1/4" gap, right BJ?

Calk won't hurt anything at this point. Use silicone and don't smear it all over the face of the Hardi. I spose you could tile and grout first.... then calk if you wished.

Hope this helps
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Unread 12-12-2008, 01:00 PM   #9
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Corner bead- CX says just tile it, and I suppose spackle to the edge of the tile. Lotsa folks do that- it works. NO METAL CORNER BEAD, it wi;ll rust and do bad things.....like rust....and stuff.

I use plastic corner bead as it gives a hard corner to float the drywall compound to. Staple or nail it on the gypsum side, silicone it to the cement board, no metal fasteners in the wet area. Then float flat from the bead back 12-18". Some people don't like the flare-out of the bead, but I've had good results with it.

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Unread 12-12-2008, 01:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gueze
Corner bead- CX says just tile it...
No, actually CX doesn't say that. CX says remove the bead. If you want the corner finished for sheetrock on one side, CX says use metal-edge tape or J-molding on the outside corner. Should be no need for corner bead if the corner is protected by tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-12-2008, 01:32 PM   #11
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CX says jut tile it (the corner, not the bead). Sorry, I was unclear.

ok, j bead would also work, my suggestion is just the solution I came up with. If a rocker had ever siuggested something like yours, I'd agree.

whatever- tiome to go chip ice off the deck.....

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Unread 12-12-2008, 03:24 PM   #12
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The metal bead is in the trash...off to HD to look for that metal-edge tape or J-molding.

Any reason the "retired" tile setter, teaching a tiling class at the local tile store, says "don't use Versabond"? I didn't get a chance to follow-up with him for an answer. HD has the Versabond and something called "flexbond at 2x the price...both are fortified...Flexbond worth the extra money??

And...yes, the tile will cover the 1/4' space between the hardi and the top edge of the shower base (pan?) lip.

Thanks for your input.

Jim
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Unread 12-12-2008, 05:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gueuze
whatever- tiome to go chip ice off the deck.....
Why'd you pewt ice on your deck if you din't want it there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
Any reason the "retired" tile setter, teaching a tiling class at the local tile store, says "don't use Versabond"? I didn't get a chance to follow-up with him for an answer.
Dunno. Maybe izza bowdarkskull?

We've had reports from the upper right corner of the USofA and a bit of Canuck Land of VersaBond being really poor quality. But I've never heard a bad word about the product from anywhere else that I recall.

John Hisself Bridge has been usin' the stuff since back when some of them places weren't even States, and he swears by it. I don't use a lot of thinset, but I've been buying VersaBond for most 25 years and never had a problem with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
HD has the Versabond and something called "flexbond at 2x the price...both are fortified...Flexbond worth the extra money??
Might be if a fella needed it. You don't need it.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-14-2008, 12:09 AM   #14
Big Jim
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Tape and Versabond applied this afternoon, seemed to dry pretty even after dampening the hardi. When using hardi, should the thin-set mixture be "wetter' to allow for the hardi "sucking it up" so quickly?

How long should I let the thin-set dry before the water proofing? The taped seems looked pretty dry after about an hour.
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Unread 12-14-2008, 09:23 AM   #15
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24 hours might be enough. Custom doesn't really address the issue in their published installation material that I've ever found, and it's actually a pretty common question.

Seems that the thinset being dry isn't much of a factor, since you're gonna wanna dampen it anyway before pewtin' on the RedGard, eh? Custom wants you should not pewt it on new concrete for 28 days, but.........

I dunno. Do it when it feels right, eh?

Good eye-dee to do their recommended priming thing over the Hardibacker, though. One part RedGard, four parts water. Mix it up, paint it on, let it turn red, then do the RedGard per instructions.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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