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Unread 09-23-2008, 07:07 AM   #1
Wolfun
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standard drain demo or Kerdi Hat

Howdy. Only after I installed this drain last week did I learn about waterproofing (I'm on a 7" slab over dirt, thought I didn't need it) I'm learning now, eh? Currently the drain sits 3/8" proud above the sloped concrete pad. See photo. I want to go Kerdi, for the walls and shower floor but per someone's suggestion, I am trying to learn how Kerdi's "hat" would fix my problems by using the standard clamping drain, or if I should just demo a 18" (or whatever you recommend) circle and put in a Kerdi drain. Thanks for your time. Peace.
Neil
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Unread 09-23-2008, 07:20 AM   #2
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Welcome, Neil.

You needn't have such major surgery to convert to a Kerdi drain, which is the only way I'd bother doing a Kerdi shower. You need a hole about five inches in diameter with access to the drain riser is all, just as you'd need to change to a standard clamping drain. Lotta information here in our whirl-famous Liberry about the Kerdi drain and installation thereof.

But it'd be helpful if we knew a little more about the area around that drain. How 'bout you back off and give us a picher with a little perspective of the area? We like pichers.

Just how much did y'all slope that slab in the drain area?

Let me also strongly recommend you purchase and download John Bridge's Kerdi Shower eBook. Best ten-dollar tool for Kerdi you'll ever find.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-23-2008, 06:51 PM   #3
Wolfun
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Pichur this

Hiya, and thanks for the info and good news. Here's a better picture, it shows the drain and toilet as well. Framing has yet to be put in in front of the foundation. You'll notice heavy water stains on the far wall from past years of flooding. Fixed now (I hope) with a french drain, Miraseal and sump pumps... Area to be tiled will be 3' by 5'. The slope is about 1/2 inch down in center from edges. That's great news about the 5" hole. Digging/ cutting that hole is all in the liberry section I take it? Many thanks. Peace.

Neil
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Unread 09-23-2008, 06:57 PM   #4
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Naaa, digging the hole ain't inna Liberry, Neil, we 'spect y'all to be able to figger that part out on your own.

That slope you've got there won't really do you much good, but I don't think it'll hurt you at all. Allow you to lower the curb a bit, if that's important to you at all.

If you'll go to the UserCP, find Edit Signature, and enter that first name there it'll appear in each post automatically.

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Unread 09-27-2008, 09:59 PM   #5
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Read the ebook, still have a few questions. Thanks.

Not a genius here... Just following what the guy at the HDepot told me to do.. again, free advice is worth how much? Buried the Oatey 151 cast iron drain in the concrete, no plans for the membrane. Glad I found your site!

So, I'm gonna cut a square around the old drain about 5" with a masonry cutoff wheel with my Makita grinder. Then I'm gonna hammer the old material out until I get to a level where I can unscrew the old drain. Unless you have any suggestions...

I used Sakretes crack resistant concrete for the floor. It has that minor slope as described earlier. The diagrams all show mortar on top of the slab. Um...? The ebook mentions thinset before applying the membrane. I'm cool to just put the thinset over the concrete right? I don't need to do a layer of mortar?

Also, once I cut a hole to remove the old drain and install the new Kerdi Drain, do I just pack the mortar as best I can around and under the drain from the sides? Any tips for that?

Many thanks.
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Unread 09-27-2008, 10:12 PM   #6
tilelayer
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i am not familiar with kerdi installs but i think you need to

1. get that clamping drain out, and then prep for the kerdi drain, then you need to do a drypack floor and bond the drypack to the slab with thiset that pitches to your drain so water runs to it. Then i assume your building a kerdi shower? you must drywall and then install the kerdi on the walls and the floor that you just built then you set your clamp from the drain when you kerdi i think the top of your drain when you tile. Im not too sure about when you set the drain because i only built a kerdi shower once, we dont do kerdi we float.

Wait for a Schluter expert to come over here. Maybe someone on the West Coast can help im off to bed
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Unread 09-27-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
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Naaa, you can't thinset Kerdi over what you've got there, Neil. First, even with my poor eyes I can see it's rough as a cob. Second, you ain't got proper slope.

You need to set your new drain so that it's at least an inch above the existing concrete, then build a proper mud slope from there to the perimeter with at least 1/4" rise per foot of run to the farthest corner from the drain. You'll wanna bond the deck mud to your concrete with a slurry of thinset or Portland cement.

I like to fill in the slab with concrete around a section of 4" PVC pipe when I'm fixin' to use a Kerdi drain. Remove the pipe before the concrete sets up and you have just barely the required room to set the drain. If you leave an inch under the flange, you can whap deck mud under there with the edge of a wood float to fill in the remaining hole.

You'll need to frame your walls and curb before you do that. I would even sheetrock the walls, install my Kerdi and tile the walls except for the bottom row before I set the drain, but that's up to you.

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Unread 09-27-2008, 11:22 PM   #8
Wolfun
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I'm thinkin' y'all don't sleep...

Two super quick replies late on Saturday night. Many thanks to both of you! The 4" PVC tip is cool. I was really trying to make this almost a wet room look with just the shower glass surround as the curb, but with raising everything up to add in the drain and mortar, I'll likely do a minimal brick curb now. No biggie. Glad this forum is here to stop me from making a serious fool of myself... or, again I mean.
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