Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 11-15-2022, 11:43 AM   #1
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
Boneheaded grinder mistake

Howdy folks, been ages since I've been on this forum.
I'm posting here as this is somewhat off topic as a tile question, but it is sort
related to a tile project.

In 2019 a water leak wrecked my kitchen. I didn't claim insurance and then covid
hit in 2020. Things were closed and my mom was 81 and vulnerable. My mom has had more health issues since 2020, I'm her only care giver and between that lot of circumstances 3yrs have elapsed since the leak. And no kitchen. Things have settled down now and I want to remedy that, but I need to clean the kitchen floor where the cabinets were so I can tile.

Anyway, the kitchen orignally had u-shaped cabinets. In early 2000s I'd tiled the floor as it was butting the tiles against the cabinets.
I'd removed the old formica tiles and their adhesive (had a lab check for asbestos and none was found).
And in about 2010 I powered up those tiles b/c our dogs ruined the grout that I'd improperly sealed.

When the cabinets were removed there was stil massive amounts of paint overspray of the same type I'd had everywhere else on this concrete before I'd orignally tiled. It's a combination of paint overspray and spray-on texture / drywall mud that is insoluble.

I bought a 7-in Dewalt grinder and double-hepa filter vac, a dust shroud, and a diamond cup wheel. The first wheel I bought clamped in place. It was making poor contact with the floor and also the clamp was not holding it so it would end up spining free. Plus after 5m of the noise my ears were also ringing so I got some -34db headcups and a threaded type dewalt diamond cup.

So here's the boneheaded mistake; I took off the ring that goes at the bottom of the motor shaft. What serves as the bottom of the clamp and probably guards against what ended up happening. When I enagaged the motor the torque threaded the wheel onto the shaft, binding almost immediately. But I failed to notice for about 10 seconds. The hearing protection made it so I didn't hear the motor was probably humming loud. I heard it only as a dull noise. I had not even put the wheel on the ground. The "magic smoke" was my first clue something was amiss. So, I might have a dead grinder, but in the meantime. I have a wheel ceased into place on the arbor very tight. I need ideas on how to undo this condition?

https://imgur.com/a/FmjpBEa

I can try using a screwdriver, but so far I cannot find any of those holes that gives
me the leverage I need. I have no vise with a big enough throat to hold the grinder.
I have an old craftman table with vise but it's wood so it's holding capacity is very limited. It's also made for wood working not something like this.

I've asked this question in a few places now. Hoping for an idea.

Any help.
Attached Images
  
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"

Last edited by GHR; 11-15-2022 at 02:13 PM.
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 11-15-2022, 01:15 PM   #2
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,424
Welcome back, Henry.

I've moved you to the Advice forum because we know this will turn into a project thread soon enough, eh?

And I'm sure you remember that we prefer that you post your photos as attachments from storage on your computer so they appear in your post and remain a permanent part of your thread and don't disappear later when the third party site changes the URL.

As for removing that wheel (I don't understand the smoking part), my first try, if I could find no tool to lever against the shaft, would be to rap it very smartly in the counterclockwise direction with a brass hammer while holding down the shaft lock button. Could probably work with a steel hammer, but it is actually possible to chip those teeth, which you'd rather not do.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 02:12 PM   #3
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
Post

OK. Your call on moving the thread. Been ages and a day since I posted here.
The project could be a while coming still. I uploaded the photos.

The entire "incident" happened quite fast. Say 10-20 seconds. I powered on.
It kicks like a mule from the torque and without the bottom washer plate the arbor threaded the wheel all the way to the bottom of the shaft. It's normal threaded,
not reverse. The wheel bound up on the dust shroud. I thought I had it all the way threaded, but evidently did not.

The whine/hum of the motor got loud enough to penetrate the soundproofing
on my ears and by that time I noticed the wheel was bound.
And saw the smoke puff from the vents at the motor after I let go of the trigger
and also removed the plug from the wall.

After I posted my original message I did manage to get the wheel to spin using Vise-Grips (REAL not knock-offs, so they have good teeth), and brute force, to the spindle-lock position so it can be pressed fully in. But now the wheel is just in a "that wont budge" condition. No further force moves it. The visegrips lose contact from my pushing it or the grinder pulls loose of the table vise. I have tried a 4" wide brick chisel and a hammer, but no effect except to move the entire grinder. In essense I lack leverage and a suitable clamp.

The spacing and angle of those holes does not permit a screwdriver to enter and not run right into the dustshroud. And the only tool I had with a long handle; a T-Handle hex driver is too thin. It began to flex before making even a hint of motion. I'll end up bending it and further complicating this mess or breaking it off.

The only thing even resembling a vise or clamp is one of those old Craftmen tables that have handles for "one hand clamp" so the center of the table opens/closes but it's an early model (bought in 2000) before they added metal facing to the wood so the wood had no bite to hold the grinder housing firm. I'd also prefer to not crack the grinder in clamping it down or scratcing it up too too much.
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"

Last edited by cx; 11-15-2022 at 04:07 PM.
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 02:55 PM   #4
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,289
What is the RPM of the grinder? With a wheel like that, you really need a slow turning grinder or variable speed that can be turned down some.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 04:20 PM   #5
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
Grinder specs say motor is 8000RPM. Says 8500 RPM max on the wheel package.

Quote:
Brand ?DEWALT
Material ?Metal
Item Dimensions LxWxH ?5.75 x 21.44 x 12.38 inches
Style ?Adjustable
Power Source ?Corded Electric
Color ?Yellow
Item Weight ?19 Pounds
Voltage ?120 Volts
Maximum Rotational Speed ?8000 RPM
Horsepower ?3.00
Manufacturer ?Dewalt
Part Number ?DW840K
Item Weight ?19 pounds
Product Dimensions ?5.75 x 21.44 x 12.38 inches
Country of Origin ?China
Item model number ?DW840K
Is Discontinued By Manufacturer ?No
Size ?full size
Item Package Quantity ?1
Certification ?UL
Special Features ?Heavy-duty
Included Components ?Bare-tool; attachments; case
Batteries Included? ?No
Batteries Required? ?No
Warranty Description ?90 Day Money Back Guarantee
From the Amazon listing.

I think it was the starting torque along with dragging on the dust shroud
that sealed my fate on this. I've never felt a tool have that much kick.
I had to hold it really steady when puling the trigger.It does not have a
trigger lock.
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 04:36 PM   #6
Just In Tile LLC
Registered User
 
Just In Tile LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Palestine, Texas
Posts: 1,709
I've had my wheel locked on a couple times, I have a super size pair of channel locks that helps when this happens but I only own 4-1/2 -5" grinders.

Otherwise a irwin quick clamp can work nicely if you can get a good grip for leverage. Maybe have a ratchet strap around the outside of the wheel first to aid in the quick clamp grip. Or an oil filter strap wrench if you have one.
__________________
Justin
"Being world class means knowing you're good, but never satisfied you're good enough"
Just In Tile LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 05:25 PM   #7
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
There is simply nowhere to grab onto with a tool except on the "teeth" near the open edge of the dust shroud which is what I've managed to do far enough to spin the motor to the locking detent position.

The spindle lock is engaged now, but the wheel still won't budge.
The shroud is also jammed in place by the over threaded wheel so it's not going anywhere until the wheel is removed without something super drastic and I'm not there yet I don't think. A strap wrench would need to be made from something like teflon so as to not be ripped up by the wheel. I'll look into that though.

I'll see if I can get some more photos. I'm not sure I'm describing the issue as well as a photos will.
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"

Last edited by cx; 11-15-2022 at 05:52 PM.
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2022, 10:37 PM   #8
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 23,454
Try positioning a narrow cold chisel or stout flat-blade screwdriver into one of the outer-most round dust holes on a shallow angle, pointed in the counter-clockwise position. Then hit it with a hammer. The amount of torque you’ll get with the split-second blow is significantly higher than wrenching it off.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2022, 02:11 AM   #9
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
@Tool Guy - Kg

I have tried clamping the thing down vertically in the table vise. AS noted this vise is made probably for light-duty wood work. Not actually as a vise for anything else. It's all I have though.

The grinder goes as far as the port for the dust shroud which makes it not quite square to the table. I have tried the much larger 3-inch brick chisel that has a big guard on top, placed it against on of the teeth and struck the chisel. The problem returns to the lack of clamping power of this vise; Moment I strike at the chisel the vise loses hold and the entire grinder moves also.
I'm not sure where my smaller chisels or my 3-pound pursuader are.
Would using such a smaller chisel vs the large one make that much difference?
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2022, 06:39 AM   #10
CaliGrown
Registered User
 
CaliGrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 692
Bubba’s hit the solution.
We ran into the same issue two weeks back when prepping a floor. I held the grinder with the wheel lock fully in place and a hand on the cup wheel. Other guy hit it with the flat head and hammer, was able to unthread it after that. Spray some on pb blaster or WD-40 on the arbor, undo the locking clamp on the dust shroud and see if you can hit it back away from the cup wheel to free any tension/space up
__________________
“ Most times ya set tile, other times tile sets you!”
Christopher Machado
https://www.machadotileco.com/
CaliGrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2022, 06:52 AM   #11
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 23,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHR
Moment I strike at the chisel the vise loses hold and the entire grinder moves also….
…I'm not sure where my smaller chisels or my 3-pound pursuader are.
Would using such a smaller chisel vs the large one make that much difference?
No clamp needed. Cradle the grinder between your legs, as long as your screwdriver isn’t positioned in a way where it can accidentally poke your leg if it pops out of the round hole.

As far as a narrower screwdriver/chisel: to direct the blow at a shallower angle and stay seated inside the round hole. The wider chisel is more likely to pop out of the round hole.

And a regular 16oz hammer is better than the big 3 pound persuader.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2022, 08:54 PM   #12
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
@Tool Guy-KG

I'm not sure I have a chisel that will go into the holes far enough before hitting the shroud if I go from the inside-out. If I try to go outside-in the angle does not permit me putting anything through the holes.

There is still no way I can move this wheel without it being held down by something more than my knees. Besides, i'll be 47 next month. And hitting it against my knees is also going to add to my already-present aches and pains of getting down on my floor.

@CX. I messaged you back to your PM. If you want to combine this thread further with my last one from 2019 https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...d.php?t=128253. Since that is the project that will be applicable once I get the crap on my floor off.
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2022, 09:08 PM   #13
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,424
47?!! That would be 30 years ago for some of us Henry! Your knees are barely coming into their own.

You should be able to hold that grinder firmly in your little clamping table. I've used those tables on jobsites many times and see no reason you can't find a way to us yours to hold that grinder firm enough to give that wheel a good smack with a pounder. Nothing as large as a 3 pounder required, though.

Yes, I saw your PM. I think after we get this grinder problem taken care of, you should then revive your old project thread if you're continuing it.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2022, 12:49 PM   #14
GHR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,675
When I first tiled my floors I was under 30. Now, 17yrs later my knees and muscles get tight from being down on my knees for very long. And my back too. I've bent over to help friend with stuff and ended up in bed for days after due to back tightness.

The table is 22 yrs old. The wood is worn (it's just cheap MDF) from abuse
of those 22 yrs. It won't hold this firmly enough. It actually opens when
I hit hard enough and it just lets go and threatens to send the grinder flying to the floor.

I need to figure out what I'm going to use in place of Tool Guy's cold chisel idea. I don't have anything at the moment that will fit into the holes at the angle of the wheel. my screw drivers are all #2 but long and thin. The one
I tried is now bent. I need something thicker and harder material.
__________________
I'm Henry
Money talks alright... All ever says to me is "Goodbye!"
GHR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2022, 08:55 AM   #15
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 1,228
heat the wheel with a torch. then bang on it to loosen it. The heat will make the mounting hole expand.
__________________
Mike
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cup Grinder Wheels MNTileGuy Professionals' Hangout 4 10-24-2008 07:08 PM
Grinder Fun ! klbowe Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 04-15-2008 10:16 AM
Bosch Grinder Bri Professionals' Hangout 44 03-21-2007 05:22 PM
Angle Grinder JR Professionals' Hangout 20 12-11-2005 05:53 AM
grinder madmax Professionals' Hangout 9 07-28-2005 07:38 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC