Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 06-09-2020, 06:32 PM   #16
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
Life rarely gives you second chances, but I've got a second chance in this case. What you said about the concrete curb being OK so long as I didn't use too much water in the mix caused me to second guess myself and back track my actions. Yes, I did put too much water into the mix. So I hit the curb with a 5 pound sledge a few times and broke it all up and removed it. It came out pretty easily, and I wonder if that's evidence that I put too much water into the mix.

So now I'm facing a decision. The rebar is still there, so I could pour this curb again, use the right amount of water and give it some slope this time. The thing that has me turned off to concrete, now, is the potential to have to wait 28 days for it to cure enough for me to enclose it with a pan, mud, and tile. I still like the idea of concrete though, because it would seem to avoid the entire issue of needing a moisture or vapor barrier and of shrinking or twisting lumber. Or I could change direction and go with a wood curb and use a 6 mil plastic vapor barrier. Or, I could lay bricks, which I understand is a common way to build a curb on SOG. This avoids the problem with wood and also avoids the cure time for concrete.

In which direction should I go? I do know that if want to install wood, I need to do a moisture test using the method you outlined, CX. I need to buy some more 6 mil plastic first, I'm all out.

Decisions, decisions. I may be overthinking this.
__________________
Skyler

Last edited by zinctoo; 06-09-2020 at 06:43 PM.
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2020, 07:22 AM   #17
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,482
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyler
I may be overthinking this.
Maybe. But I can relate.

The rebar/concrete/lath/mud is overkill (coming from someone who likes overkill) IMO. If it were mine, barring any obvious displays of water on top of the slab after a good rain, I'd use straight 2X4's (appears you already have some) with poly under them, and affix the bottom 2X to the slab with either Ramset's or Tapcons, then screw the 2nd 2X to the first with construction screws. Since you're going to put poly under the 2X4 there's no need to do the moisture test.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2020, 08:35 PM   #18
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
I'm finally starting to make progress on this shower project again. On a few interior walls that I've opened up, before hanging new drywall, I've installed Rockwool Safe 'n' Sound unfaced stone wool batt insulation for sound dampening.

Can I install this behind my PermaBase cement backer boards? I will be using Mapei AquaDefense on the PermaBase as a waterproofing membrane.

Thank you in advance!
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2020, 08:45 PM   #19
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
Not sure I'm understanding the question, Skyler. Why would you think using a particular backer board would prevent your using sound insulation in your wall? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to me.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2020, 09:03 PM   #20
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
Well, I don't know what I don't know, and in general I don't know very much! Haha. Thank you for your quick reply!
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2020, 09:35 PM   #21
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
Understand.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-28-2020, 08:54 PM   #22
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
This past weekend I built my preslope out of deck mud. In general I think it came out really great! It's solid and not sandy at all.

However, there are a few low spots, one or two half-dollar size spots no more than 1/8" deep. I have a couple questions:

1. Can I fill these low spots with more deck mud or thinset? Thinset seems like it would be easier since these spots are relatively thin.
2. I read in another post on this forum about giving the entire preslope a skim coat of thinset to smooth it out prior to installing the pan liner. Would this be an acceptable thing to do?

Thanks!
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-28-2020, 09:31 PM   #23
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
If that is a pre-slope, Skyler, you can do whatever you want to it. Thinset mortar is not made for flattening or truing the substrate, but it's done and would work in your application. If this is a pre-slope. I think I'm not entirely clear on how you plan to waterproof your receptor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-29-2020, 07:44 AM   #24
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
CX, it's the preslope. I'll be installing a PVC pan liner on top of it.
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-29-2020, 07:53 AM   #25
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
OK. The ceramic tile industry has no requirements on how a pre-slope must be constructed, only that there be one. The pan liner and pre-slope are technically the plumber's responsibility.

You can patch that pre-slope in any manner you like, so long as it's solid and properly sloped. No reason, nor advantage to skim coating it with thinset mortar that I can think of.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-29-2020, 08:07 AM   #26
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
"The ceramic tile industry has no requirements on how a pre-slope must be constructed, only that there be one."

CX, thank you, that's really interesting and good to know. I had formed the impression that it was important that I use deck mud for the preslope and I couldn't figure out why the actual composition of the preslope mattered (e.g. deck mud vs. 3:1 sand topping mix), since it would be going under a pan liner anyway.
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-29-2020, 08:50 AM   #27
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
It is important what you use for a pre-slope, Skyler, from the standpoint of knowing what works best and is commonly accepted. The 5:1 sand/Portland deck mud mix, for example, is known to work quite well and be much easier to form into shape than a 3:1 mix. Not a wheel that needs any reinvention.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-11-2020, 09:25 PM   #28
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
I did my own 30 hour flood test, and then a separate one with the city building inspector and I passed! The inspector used a digital torpedo level to verify my pre-slope, which was pretty neat. I've got a couple of questions for the knowledgable folks of this forum before I proceed with the rest of this project, if you'll be so kind.

First, I'm getting ready to lathe and mortar my curb.

1. Should I mortar the curb before I build the tile base? (Not sure if "tile base" is the correct name — by this I mean the layer of deck mud atop the PVC pan liner).

2. Should I leave a gap between the bottom of the curb mortar and the PVC pan liner? Someone, somewhere, said that this was necessary to prevent water from wicking up and around the curb. I know that the article in the Liberry doesn't say to do this, but I have to ask.

I will be using Permabase cement board (a true CBU) for my shower walls. I'll be coating the outside face of these with AquaDefense.

3. What is the current industry opinion about whether or not I should embed the CBU into the tile base deck mud? Should I do this?

4. If I do embed the CBU in the tile base, how much height, if any, should the bottom edge be raised up from the PVC pan liner? 1/2", 3/4", 1"?

Lastly, getting ahead of myself a little, I saw a video on YouTube recently. The person had built a traditional shower receptor using a PVC pan liner with a sloped tile base atop it. They then painted RedGuard in the corners and around the inside perimeter of the receptor. They said this would provide extra waterproofing protection. This strikes me as odd because I feel like the one lesson I've learned through this project is to pick a system and stick to it. I.e. to not mix waterproofing methods.

5. Is it a valid method to use RedGuard (or AquaDefense, etc.) on any area of the tile base of a traditional shower receptor? E.g. around the edges? Does this provide any additional waterproofing or is this simply doing it wrong?

Thank you all in advance!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-11-2020, 09:38 PM   #29
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 96,468
A rare find in code compliance inspectors, Skyler, and simply unbelievable in Florida.

1. I do.

2. I have never paid any attention to doing any such.

3. The TCNA Handbook method (B415-19) for true CBUs (C1325) shows the bottom edge captured in the top mud bed. If you wanna be more specific you'll need to ask National Gypsum.

4. Half an inch or so should be fine. Lots of bad info available on Youtube.

5. Simply wrong.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-11-2020, 09:59 PM   #30
zinctoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 55
CX, thanks for your quick reply!

Hey, since you're around... one more question.

I read https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...23&postcount=9 before I headed to out to buy mortar. It advises to buy Quikrete ready-to-use Mortar Mix, but the image is a little small so I couldn't tell if it was suggesting type N or S.

https://www.johnbridge.com/how-to/shower-curb/ says "The mortar you’ll be using is the same as that used to lay bricks, except that you’ll mix it a little stiffer than bricklayers do" but this also doesn't make a distinction between type N or S (or the other types).

Maybe this is common knowledge, but can you tell me which mortar type I should use to float a curb? I bought type N but I understand now that type S has more compressive strength, and I suspect that I bought the wrong kind.
__________________
Skyler
zinctoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC