what do u guys think about this story

[Diaz.victor@aol.com]

Just got a new builder, builds multi million dollar homes ,his houses typically have
4-5k ft of floor (stone/tile) and 5-6 showers. The project im on now is 5k ft of 9x48" rectified edge wood grain tile I told him it will be 3-4 weeks of labor with 2 installers and 2 helpers. He says its too long, but since cabinets are on back order ,this time 3-4 weeks for floors will be fine. Also says his last marble crew installed 4000 ft of rectified edge mud set travertine along with mapeguard peel & stick in 4 days! I immediately called bullcrap as i have been in business for 20 years and i can only install 150-200 ft of mudset per day and thats on a good day
I asked how may on the crew and he said 3 installers and 2 helpers
Is there a new faster method of installing a perfect mudset travertine floor that i have never seen before or is he full crap? What do u guys think?

[Tool Guy - Kg]

I don't doubt they did set that much in that little time. But the old saying hasn't been proven false for a looooooooooooong time: Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two...you can't have all three.

[mark999]

This is what I tell them. I know you want it done cheap,quick, and a quality job.Pick one and the first two do not count. I have a high standard and that reflects on my reputation. I never compromise on quality and if I can not do a job in a certain time frame I tell the client they need to find someone else.

[Davy]

Victor, as you're finding out, some builders will work you like a dog. I've been there many times. I've been stressed out about it before too, working 7 days a week and it's still not enough. I eventually found that it was better for me to tell them that I'll do all I can and if that's not enough, they can find someone else. They wanted my good quality work but I couldn't provide it fast enough.

I remember one builder that I tiled a couple houses for, he was always trying to put a time limit on my installations. If I told him it would take a week, he would say he wanted it done in 3 days. I finally told him that I was going to give him a top notch job whether he liked it or not. He said, oh, yes, I want a top notch job. I told him good, then leave me alone. After that I told him to find someone else.

You'll probably learn to tell him 5 weeks, then he will say 3-4 weeks. Then you can say, ok, I'll try to do that.

Good luck with him, I stay away from builders these days just because of what you're talking about. Don't let them drive you crazy.

[Higher Standard Tile]

Victor is he using how fast he says they did it to say your price is too high or he just needs it done that fast to meet his schedule?

[Karls tile Inc]

No way in hell 3 installer are going to install that much in 4 days. Cutting alone takes sometime especially since you have to make every cut on the wet saw. The quality would also be in question as well.

[Diaz.victor@aol.com]

I have four people on my crew and i think he feels i should
have more people on he job Some of these builders get a big draw right after tile and cabinets are instaled and they all seem to always be in a rush when it comes to tile That's why I think he's kinda pushing the schedule a little bit. 4 man crew is enough for a job this size. This is the typical size job we're in all year and it's always lthe same story with every builder ,But the story he gave me about 4K travertine install in 4 days was pretty ridiculous so I thought I'd share it to see what other pros thought

[Davy]

I agree, 4000 sq ft of travertine on mud in 4 days is crazy. When builders would tell me BS stories like that, I'd ask them, if they were so great, where's that crew now? Probably in the grave from being over worked.

This is off topic but I had just started working for a builder, his previous tileman installed a shower that was leaking like crazy. The builder decided to have me tear it all out and replace it at his expense. The homeowners were out of town and they were trying to get it finished before they came home. The builder wasn't happy when I told him that I wouldn't finish in time, I needed a few more days. He told me that his old tile man would work till mid-night if he told him to. That kinda pissed me off. I asked him where was he going to be tonight at mid-night, he said at home. I said, so will I. Then I told him that I have his old tile man's phone number if he needs it. I never liked hearing about someone's last tile man. If he was worth a crap I wouldn't be in here replacing his shower.

At first, I had to fight for a little respect but I ended up doing his work for 17 years. We ended up being pretty good friends, even today. But, in the beginning I had to show him I wasn't going to take his crap.

[Dave Gobis]

I vote for BS as well.

[tilemanct]

After looking at houses in Florida last year you can tell when they hired a true tile professional. I would say about 95% of the houses I looked at, the tilework was atrocious. In my head I was saying rip out!!!
Sounds like you got yourself a briefcase builder. He's feeding you a bunch of crap. If he had a crew that could do that amount of work in such a short period of time with quality, he wouldn't be asking you for a quote!!! Run from this guy.

[mark999]

Victor

How much are you getting for this floor? And how much are you paying your setters and helpers?

[PetrH]

allowing for some exaggeration, the story may well be true. Let's say these guys are young and fit (working like dogs 10 hours a day) and the rooms are fairly large, they could install 300 square feet/ day each, with one helper mixing mud full time and the other grouting full time.

But I'm with you, 200 feet is a great day of setting stone for me and that does not include grouting. In fact, I count 200 feet of regular ceramics as a good day.

If you can find the right builder though, it can be a great relationship. I have worked with some where you go in house after house with all the same trades because there is no turn over, and everybody learns what all the others prefer for prep. It can end up very smooth sailing.

[Tile & Stone Guild]

Some guys have a different lippage meter. Also 1 guy could spend a day and a half running down a long hall on a diahonal. We would flip to see who got stuck.

Thinset yes, mud would be 18hrs days, is give it a no because that's how they try to motivate you. Do a few ,let him see your work and that will speak for itself.

[Diaz.victor@aol.com]

Mark, I usually don't discuss pricing on an open forum
but my basic floor tile install price for porcelain starts at $4 p/f (labor only) and goes up depending on design and tile size
Helpers make $100 a day and installers start at $200 and up depending on skill
I install full time also.

[Davy]

Victor, the time it takes to do a job is important but I would focus on quality instead of the time. After all, it doesn't matter how fast you installed the floor if you end up with too much lippage or other problems.

If you work long hours to get the job done in record time. You better plan on doing it on every job because he will expect it.