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Unread 04-04-2020, 05:10 PM   #1
TFish
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Old Bathroom remodel

Hello all!!

Im currently getting mixed info from local and online advice. My intention for the build of this shower was to use green board, redgard and then tile the walls. My issue is what to use under the tile for both the shower floor and walls as well as the rest of the floor. I have the pics attached of what I have purchased but I'm not quite sure now which way to go. Using mosaic on the shower floor (concrete slab home btw), 3"x6" on shower walls and 12"x24" on the rest of the Bathroom. Thanks in advance!
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Unread 04-04-2020, 07:04 PM   #2
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Welcome, Travis.

Some red flags popping up there.

Regardless how you intend to construct this shower, your local building code, with which you want to comply, will not accept gypsum drywall (your "green board") as a tile backer in your shower. More importantly, the manufacturer of the RedGard will also not accept that. You must use a CBU (cementitious backer unit) for your wallboard in that application.

How do you plan to construct your shower receptor or pan?

Seeing the products in your photo, I'd recommend you return them to Lowe's and make other selections. That thinset mortar is MAPEI's bottom line and I think you'll find the instructions on the bag tell you that it's not suitable for use with your large format floor tiles in any application, not even with the polymer additive. I'd suggest you find a MAPEI product there that indicates it meets ANSI A118.4 when mixed with water. I'm not familiar with what Lowe's stocks these days.

The Type 1 organic adhesive you can return also as you don't have an application in your described project for which I'd recommend such product, commonly referred to as mastic. There is part of your project where it could, technically, be used (shower walls only), but I'd not recommend it there, either.

But do tell us more about how you plan to construct this shower, starting with the drain.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-04-2020, 07:04 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum, Travis!

The good news is that we can help you figure this out. There are a lot of different aporoved methods for tiling. And it often varies on whether it’s a floor or wall...and if it’s a wet or dry location.

So let’s immediately get one thing out of the way before we dig into this: greenboard is mostly something that holds no value. Why? Because it’s easily degraded and is very often not allowed to be used in a wet location like a shower. Many of us work in areas that have adopted certain codes and most codes prohibit greenboard in a wet location. But even if you have no codes to contend with, the average DIY’er like you that is caring enough to do research so that you end up with a nice, long-lasting install, greenboard isn’t something you want because it’s too susceptible to severe deterioration in the presence of moisture...and the coating used on it makes it harder to bond to. For the most part: unless code requires the use of greenboard, I’ll sugest you don’t use it at all.

Okay, first thing to decide for the shower is whether you want to build a “traditional” shower using methods of waterproofing under the substrate (plastic/tarpaper and a heavy pan liner with a 3-piece clamping drain....
...or would you prefer to build a shower that has surface-applied waterproofing...meaning that the substrate is waterproofed on top of it. What’s the difference? Both are good and both have a long history of working well. But some folks prefer surface waterproofing to reduce the moisture within the tile assembly which helps the shower dry out faster between uses....which means it’s much less likely to support mold growth.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. This is what we do here. Oh, and I’ll make one last quick suggestion: from here on out, it’s probably not a good idea to ask questions at the box stores. There are plenty of well-meaning and caring folks there. But, historically, the stores have done a poor job of training them. And that’s a recipe for a lack of consistent answers.

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Unread 04-05-2020, 06:10 AM   #4
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Great advice on this shower

Thanks!!

Well Ill be trashing the green board. I have already put the pan in with mortar bed. I used the preslope/pan liner/final slope method. My shower is a small one, 3' x 3' ish. Currently pressed for time because of this virus thing and I'm trying not to go back and forth to Lowe's so much. Is it possible that through communicating on this thread that a list of the materials can be made that I can go and pick up? Also I'm not familiar with the type of board that is recommended for the shower here. Will I need a special tool to cut? I prefer to use redgard cause I have it already to waterproof the surface before tiling if that's doable.

Thanks again! You all are blessed with patience!!
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Unread 04-05-2020, 07:57 AM   #5
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Before getting too far along, Travis, we'd be happy to learn the details - materials and parts included, of exactly how you constructed your shower receptor. Our collective goal being to ensure the final product provides years of trouble free service.

Yes, the contributors here can help build a materials list. As cx already mentioned select a mortar that meets ANSI A118.4 specifications, which Lowes will have. Lowes will also have the CBU, and the proper screws to attach it. You'll need the reinforcing mesh tape for the CBU joints - you'll likely find that in the tile supply isle. You'll need trowels of the proper size for the tile you'll be setting, buckets to mix the mortar.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 09:15 AM   #6
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Thanks Dan,

I used the green label on the curb, red label on the floor, once again using prepitch/oatey pan liner and then final mortar bed.

Will I be able to cut the cbu with a blade? Saw?
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Unread 04-05-2020, 10:37 AM   #7
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Travis, if your Lowe's carries USG Durock backer board, I'd use the 1/2" version of that.

After installing that per the manufacturer's instructions, you can use the RedGard as your wall waterproofing.

If you purchased the RedGard at Homer's, you can also find a suitable thinset mortar there, which would be VersaBond. Or you can find a suitable MAPEI product at Lowe's.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 01:02 PM   #8
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Thanks CX,

Ok, all that is noted. Anyone have suggestions for my floor tile in the shower. I understand that the outside of shower bathroom floor ill need a large tile thinset (12x24 tile)but will thinset be appropriate on shower floor? Concidering mosaic tiles, i realize it will take a different thinset.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 01:33 PM   #9
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Travis, thinset is a method, not a material, no matter how often you hear us use it incorrectly. You will be using the thinset or thin bed method to set all the tiles in your project and you'll do that with a thinset mortar.

If your floor is flat and your tiles are flat, you may be able to get by with a standard thinset mortar. If not, you'll want to select a mortar that is advertised as a Large and Heavy Tile mortar. Those mortars are usable at thicknesses greater than the maximum of 1/4" for standard thinset mortars. You may see them called LFT (Large Format Tile) mortars or even the now defunct Medium Bed mortars (there is no medium bed method).

Your mosaic tiles need only the standard thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.4, the same as you'll use to set the shower wall tiles.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 01:47 PM   #10
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Can you give us a pic or two of your pan liner installation?

Also, you may want to check out the "shower construction info" thread. You'll find it in the Liberry (dark blue bar above). Lots of good info there.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 02:08 PM   #11
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Here you go. I wasnt pleased with my top mortar so I scrapped it. Gonna mix more of the quickrete red as pictured above and pack another one in I think I didn't use enough water the first go around. Went to vacuum the sandy stuff off the top and it sucked craters into it. Think I should also pack it more before screeting.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 02:17 PM   #12
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Ok CX, so that standard thinset mortar would work fine on redgard using durock or something of that nature? And should I use a modified or polymer added or just plain thinset? Also, I won't be running tile all the way to ceiling. Should I durock to ceiling and paint as a normal wall?
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Unread 04-05-2020, 03:39 PM   #13
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Travis, I'm not posting the numbers for the relevant ANSI standards to confuse you, I posted them so you'll use the correct products. Again, you'll want a modified thinset mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118.4 for all your stated project needs. You can purchased a mortar that's got the necessary modifiers in the dry mix and mix that with water or you can purchase a mortar that does not meet the standard unless mixed with a modifying additive. Either way will work. If you want to use the two-part mortar you've already got, you can do that (but not the Type 1 adhesive). If you read the information on that bag of mortar you'll see that it says it will meet the requirements of A118.4 only if you mix it with the liquid additive.

For making the new mud bed for your shower floor, I'd recommend you eliminate the plastic strips. Your tile installation doesn't really need dividers in the substrate to tell them where to crack. But that, too, is up to you.

If you plan to use the same Sand Mix, I strongly recommend you visit our Liberry as Davy suggested and read everything you find in the Shower Construction thread. One of the things in there will be instructions on how best to modify that Sand Mix to make it more suitable for the top mud bed on your shower floor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 04:23 PM   #14
TFish
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Thanks CX,

I'll get back to you all with updates! Just glad I'm getting some straight forward advice without someone trying to steer me to some kinda product.
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Unread 04-05-2020, 05:37 PM   #15
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Travis, when removing leaking showers, we see the most damage at the curb so it's important to make sure it's done right. I was hoping to see your curb and how the liner folds over it. What is on the curb now and was pan corners used like the liberry shows?
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