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Unread 02-26-2007, 06:34 PM   #1
Anthony NY
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Going Nuts

Hello all
I am at the point of my bathroom remodel where I am ready to install the tile.
What's driving me crazy is the old story about ask 50 people the same question get 50 different answers. The well known tile supply house I bought my tiles from sold me a bucket of Mapei Type 1 to put up my 9x13 ceramic wall tiles. Luckily for me I found this forum before I installed them. So I go back to the store and tell them that I understand that the Type 1 is not recommend for wet locations like my tub surround. Well it just so happens that there is a "professional" tile man there at the counter at the time and with that they procede to laugh and tell me not to believe everything I read.
And then go on to explain how they have tiled a million bathrooms with this stuff and never have had a problem.
Could someone explain to me how mapei can sell this stuff and not tell you it can not be used in tub surrounds. All they say is it is "not for use in areas of prolonged water immersion".
All that aside can someone please advise as what to use and how to use it when applying my tiles to DensShield.
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Unread 02-26-2007, 06:57 PM   #2
MudMaker
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Anthony,

Welcome to the Forum....

Take the Mastic back - smile at the nice man and get a good latex modified thinset that you mix to a peanut butter consistency and put the tiles on the wall with that..
You won't get ANYONE here recommending a Mastic for a Wet Zone..
and the good thing is - it's cheaper too...

I go to Dal Tile or HD and get Versabond to set tile with.. You can go to Custom's web site and get info on latex modified thinsets by clickin on the ProLite bag on your right...
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Unread 02-26-2007, 07:00 PM   #3
Dave Taylor
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Howdy Anthony.......

You gonna have a shower in that tub surround, Anthony?

Lotsa' nice thinsets you kin use to put your tile up in yer' tub surround..... and you wont never need to worry about wether or not you fit the definition of
Quote:
areas of prolonged water immersion
I like Laticrete 317 floor and wall mixed only with Laticretes 333 admix... both Lowes and Homless Depot carry it.... white or grey. White for light colored tiles, grey for dark.

Versa Bond thinset is well thought of here-a-bouts and would work well for you also.

Stop agonizin' over this and use the real stuff (modified thinset you gotta mix) and sleep well.

Now I know I can't explain one million bathrooms being tiled by a few experts.... hells bells I aint' been in a million bathrooms and I kin hardly pass one..... at my age :---)

Stores sell Mastic cause they make money on it.... its easy..... they don't need to stock tons of other heavy stuff that don't have no shelf life of forever.... and everybody understands glue.

That help Anthony? :---)

By the by.... ask 50 folks here-a-bouts and they will tell you the same thing.

Oh Yeh...... what Frank SEZ. See Tony. See :---)
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Last edited by Dave Taylor; 02-26-2007 at 07:12 PM.
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Unread 02-26-2007, 07:33 PM   #4
Star
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Like the boys said. Mixing thinset is like making mud pies, it ain't any harder than that...there's plenty of time and the mix is not that critical..creamy peanut butter how hard is that? I used thinset for the first time a couple of weeks ago, the stuff is amazing, it sticks like hell, washes up easy and doesn,t taste so bad (I did a ceiling :-)).

Trick: if your mixing the stuff indoors use your shop-vac when you pour the powder in the 5 gallon pail and also when you begin to mix...or mix outside ( I live in quebec and that's not an option)
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Unread 02-26-2007, 08:17 PM   #5
Anthony NY
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If memory serves me my HD has VersaBond and FlexBond, should I go with the VersaBond?
Do I just mix and spread it on the wall with a notch trowel and apply the tile? That reminds me the "experts" at the tile place also said I would have a hard time with the thinset because the weight of the tile would make them slide down. Is there any truth to this?
I was also sold a bag of Mapei Ker121 to set the floor tile is this any good or should I return that also and use the VersaBond or FlexBond.
I'm thankful for your quick replys.
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Unread 02-26-2007, 08:32 PM   #6
Davy
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Hi Anthony, welcome. I'd use the Versabond for the floor and tub splash.

Thinset does allow the tiles to slide but if you start at the bottom and stack the tiles using spacers or wedges, it'll be fine.

It cracks me up when guys say they have been doing it a certain way for a thousand years without a call back. The reason they didn't get the call back was because the folks called someone else. Are you going to take your car back to a mechanic that has proven to you he didn't know what he was doing? No way, Same thing with tile work.
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Unread 02-26-2007, 08:38 PM   #7
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Sounds like Mastic = Lazy. I was duped once by box store help. Stated using mastic on my tile backspash. Reaized my error before I got to the stove backsplash. Heat + mastic would have = trouble!
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Unread 02-26-2007, 08:47 PM   #8
Anthony NY
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I forgot to mention that it is a tub / shower. I dont know if that changes anything.
I went to Custom's web site as suggested and it seems they offer a better warranty on the FlexBond and the VersaBond Flex that would suggest to me that they are better products, if that is true then why the VersaBond over them?
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Unread 02-26-2007, 09:15 PM   #9
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Anthony,
It changes nothin buddy.....
You set the second row first off the tub on a ledger, and tile from there.. go back to the first row the next day and set it to the tub. The tiles around the tub will all be cuts...

Quote:
that would suggest to me that they are better products, if that is true then why the VersaBond over them?
Costs more.. I used some Megaflex today on tile over tile.... $35/bag versus about $14 for Versabond.. Use what ya like... Can't go wrong with Custom's products...
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Unread 02-27-2007, 10:37 AM   #10
Anthony NY
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Between FlexBond & VersaBond does one grip better and would give me less slide on the wall?
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Unread 02-27-2007, 02:33 PM   #11
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Anthony,
What is your concern about sliding? and yes, a gap about an 1/8" should be left for the intersection. Caulk the intersection with silicone..
Keep all your questions on this thread related to your project.. A Moderator can always change the name of the thread at any time ya want...
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Unread 02-27-2007, 03:11 PM   #12
Anthony NY
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Frank ......With all the money I have invested in this project the last thing I would want is the tile to slide down every time I try to put one up. I do appoligize for the newbie questions.
I have a couple more by the way.
What is the widest gap I can leave for caulk between the tile and the tub?
Would this apply to DensShield also. Georgia Pacific says to use an ANSI 118.4 thinset but VersaBond is a ANSI 118.11

"2. Between Ditra and impervious tile.... because un-modified thinset will dry reasonably quickly with little or no exposure to the atmosphere while modified will not. (Ditra below will hinder air movement above.... and impervious tile (porcelain and highly glazed) above will hinder air movement below. Any thinset used is encapsulated in this environment."
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Unread 02-27-2007, 03:38 PM   #13
ddmoit
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Anthony,

118.4 thinset is unmodified, ANSI 118.11 is modified. Versabond is lightly modified, so it has been the experience of many of the pros here that it can be used in place of an unmodified (possibly voiding warranties, but who cares so long as it works?).

If you get your thinset to the right consistency, I don't think you're going to have problems with sliding tiles. I just stuck a bunch of 12" sheets of mosaics to my ceiling and walls with thinset. It works.

You're really overestimating your risk right now. Even if a tile did slide, and you didn't notice it, you have a few days where it can be removed with relative ease.

No more hemming and hawing, get that tile up!
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Unread 02-27-2007, 04:33 PM   #14
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Spacers

Anthony - Not taking anything for granted or assume too much here - I learn something new from this site and/or John's TYW/Kerdi book's every day - and this will draw a few laughs from the veterans in here - be aware they make spacers in all different sizes to put in between your tiles that helps to prevent that movement and sliding that you are concerned about. It's the simple things that make the big difference.
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Unread 02-27-2007, 04:39 PM   #15
dl
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My experience is that even with proper consistency, wall tiles may slide a bit, particularly large ones. However this is easily controlled either by starting at the bottom, setting a ledger, or simply pushing in temporary nails - and of course spacers for subsequent rows. I've even started at the top and gone down using nails under the top row and tape for rows beneath it.

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