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Unread 11-30-2009, 12:37 AM   #31
johnfrwhipple
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The Kerdi

The stain looks like it's 6' off grade.

Did your Kerdi stop a 6' or did you wrap it to 8' and the ceiling?

Looks like the light casts a good glow at that point.

Try dropping the light and rigging it up so it hangs 4 feet down and see if you get a band at 2' off grade.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 01:18 AM   #32
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Carrara is known to have iron oxide in the stone (I am talking under correction here, but recall faintly that some kind of sulphide is also present and could cause discoloration too). This manifests itself through yellowing in the tile and could be aggravated by water migration through the stone. For some reason this effect is more pronounced in places where no moisture barrier is installed behind the tile. Oxidizers like bleach, peroxide or even acidic cleaners like vinegar are known to aggravate this issue too, inducing accelerated oxidation of the affected minerals.

Unfortunately this issue is inherent to the stone and can not be poulticed out or fixed in any other way. It is unlikely that the discoloration will go away by itself or lessen in any way over time.

Did you use the same mortar throughout the build? I have no idea why it would only happen at one level, bar a either different setting medium or other difference in chemistry, or that the moisture barrier stopped at that level.

I know - this did not help much

Edit: I see the discoloration three rows down from the affected line in the left hand corner, the uppermost left hand tile in the first picture and in the two tiles directly under the shampoo shelf too, and more so in the not so well lit picture.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:21 AM   #33
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Stumped

Adriana i was thinking that it might be something like that.

I know code here in North Vancouver is waterproofing up the wall 6'

In the posts he says that there is no seam behind those tiles so it's a mystery.

Did you set the stone?

Any chance those yellowing tile got set like they show yellowing - IE did you start on that left side and then finish the center row?
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Unread 11-30-2009, 01:11 PM   #34
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Well I have bad news and bad news

That is Iron in the marble (Fe on the Periodic Table of Elements).

Why it started with just one row or abouts one row was probably because more water was used in that area, hard to say but as you can see it has progressed as I thought it would.

There are things you can do to get it out but it would etch the marble and the staining would just come right back.

He has seen this many of times and when I was on the phone with him he was actually looking at a marble lion at the Cozumel Condominium on Marco Island that has rusted since they first built the place.

I asked him why in some showers I have seen white marble with no problems like this and he said basically less to no iron content in that stone. Being stone is natural you just don't know what is going to happen so ya take your chances.

HIS ADVICE: Don't use white marble in showers.
If the client wants it then the only way he would do it is by applying something like Laticrete 9235 to the backs of the marble then install.

He would also have a disclaimer stating you have advised against using (what type of white marble you have specified) in a shower and that you are not responsible for yellowing due to iron in the stone that may or may not be present.

You are looking at a total tear-out he said.

Just remember in the future that you takes your chances with this type of install. Use something like Laticrete 9235 on backs and don't forget the signed disclaimer.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 01:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
He has seen this many of times and when I was on the phone with him he was actually looking at a marble lion at the Cozumel Condominium on Marco Island that has rusted since they first built the place.
Wanna give us a hint who "he" might be, Ben?
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Unread 11-30-2009, 02:10 PM   #36
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Unread 11-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #37
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And one more thing I forgot to mention or two:

1) Grout it with Spectralock from Laticrete in the future as well and use a sealer like "Dry Treat" form a company called Stain Proof along with those other precautions I mentioned. (9235, disclaimer)

Make sure you save those pictures to reference to any future customers about what can happen with "white marble" of any kind in a wet area........

I'll never install it any other way myself and I'll use the disclaimer from now on. My buddy is starting to get more calls on fixing this situation and they wind up being a total tear-out which he doesn't do, he just restores stone and installs glass pools only. Well he doesn't but his guys or company does.....................
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Unread 11-30-2009, 08:03 PM   #38
MarkTarkus
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Thanks everyone for your time and the good advice.
Live and learn, what else can you do? She wanted 3 more bathrooms done with this same stone but maybe after this she'll reconsider. I think I will. I've installed a handful of floors/showers with this same stone from the same vendor using the same setting materials in the past 6 months and had no issues. Apparently it's a random occurrence that could happen again or not. Thanks again,
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Unread 12-01-2009, 01:06 AM   #39
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Just a quickie long shot...did you set 100% of the tiles yourself?


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Unread 12-01-2009, 08:25 PM   #40
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Yes sir, I do 100% of everything myself.
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Unread 12-02-2009, 08:49 AM   #41
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Did you try moving the light - just for

Did you try moving the light?

Maybe the electrian spilled something on the walls when installing his trim.

Crazy Talk Section Only:

What about power cables ? Is there a wack running through that section?

Can Kerdi bleed?

Did you have an old trowel that mayber rusted up a bit after lunch and you did that section next?

Just firing - Am totally freaked out about my 3 Marble showers.
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Unread 12-02-2009, 07:38 PM   #42
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I actually set many stone baths in Cazumel on Marco many years ago.Moss Cowart was the supervisor, and they had a few setters there, me,Enis,Rosebud,a Russian and a few others.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 02:50 PM   #43
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Hi Mark

Many have given their opinion on legitimate causes/solutions (including the anonymous expert).

I see much more than one row that is affected. Besides the iron content, it appears that you are looking at a possible pyrite content issue. When the stone is in the ground, the pyrite is stable. When exposed to the atmosphere, humidity, sunlight, etc. the pyrite goes crazy.

I have a feeling that the mineral content of this batch of stone is what created the situation. Pyrite is very random and takes time to manifest into discoloration. Since some of the stones started off yellowish, I agree that you were off to a bad start.

I also agree that this is a tearout. There are poultices that will help pull the iron oxide out, but nothing will touch the pyrite.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 03:49 PM   #44
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Case Study of Marble of Carrara

http://books.google.com/books?id=_p0...marble&f=false

Seems to be like that mad scientist I know is on to something about coating the backs of the white marble with Hydroban or similar product in order to mitigate this Pyrite that John has mentioned mainly due to setting materials coming in contact with the back of the marble along with some other factors. Also grouting with Spectralock and sealing with a darn good sealer.

I still would have a disclaimer though on white marble turning yellow. Word it how you want.........I would word it in such a way to separate myself from the competition, not scare the customer and cover my butt all at the same time.
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Unread 12-06-2009, 12:15 AM   #45
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Hi Ben

Thanks for sharing the Google search. If you noticed for a possible cure it talked about crystallizing the surface. With pyrite, sealing with a impregnator is not enough to prevent surface staining.

I recently did an evaluation on a white marble top that also had pyrite staining. The tops & splash were installed with no mortar what so ever. They were pure white at the stone distributor. Within several weeks of being fabricated & installed they started discoloring. At one point several months later they appeared to worsen overnight. Solution: Tear out and use a different stone.
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