Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Professionals' Hangout

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-22-2014, 10:49 PM   #1
GM-Columbia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 17
Pricing Survey

I am in Columbia, SC and am beginning to do quite a bit of restaurant kitchen floor regrouting, but am having difficulty determining what a fair market price is for the service. I am currently charging $5.00/square foot to regrout with Ardex FL sanded grout. My price includes replacement of broken tiles and resetting loose tiles--if there are just a few of them. I quote higher if large sections of tile need to be replaced.

I would like to hear from other contractors around the country what you are charging.

All responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanx.

Bruce
GM-Columbia is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-23-2014, 01:21 AM   #2
PetrH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chilliwack, B.C.
Posts: 1,405
I charge whatever will get me $60/hr. But that's canadian dollars. You're brave to meddle with that kind of work. I run from greasy restaurant floors if I can help it.
__________________
Petr
PetrH is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2014, 01:37 AM   #3
Higher Standard Tile
Tile and Stone Contractor
 
Higher Standard Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maui
Posts: 3,644
Hi Bruce,

No comment on the pricing but why not use Spectralock IG?
It is designed for commercial kitchens and will hold up better than sanded grout.

I know a lot of new fast food kitchens still get speced with normal sanded but if they need to replace it due to a grout failure I would recommend industrial grade epoxy grout.

Regrouting commercial kitchens is hard and nasty work but not many people like to do it so if you develop a good system you should be able to make decent money.
__________________
Isaac

Higher Standard Tile & Stone
Maui, Hawaii
CTEF Certified Tile Installer #673


Maui Professional Tile & Stone Installation

Last edited by Higher Standard Tile; 05-23-2014 at 02:31 AM. Reason: Typo
Higher Standard Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2014, 02:05 AM   #4
ded dux
Registered User
 
ded dux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Eagle river, ak
Posts: 292
Including broken tiles? If you tell a client you will be there between 7:00 am, and 8:00 am, your phone will ring at 7:01 asking where you are. Your pay should be what you need/want for that day. Sounds like a very un-fun project. Best of luck to you.
__________________
Don
ded dux is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2014, 02:31 AM   #5
MarkTarkus
Mark Christensen, Tile contractor
 
MarkTarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lehi, Utah (just south of Salt Lake City)
Posts: 1,946
I did a stint of McDonalds remodels /repairs back in 07-08. It was hard and nasty work. I felt like we were charging top dollar yet it never seemed to be worth it. Working nights and in those filthy conditions is not for the faint of heart. Even the occasional McGriddle kick back didn't get me excited to do it. I'd say charge a premium rate. If you can corner that market though then charge liberally and do it. If I were doing it again I'd give a price based on a daily rate plus materials, not by the square foot. Best of luck.
MarkTarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2014, 02:38 AM   #6
Higher Standard Tile
Tile and Stone Contractor
 
Higher Standard Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maui
Posts: 3,644
I agree with Don, figure out a sqft price for regrout and a per tile or per sqft price for tile replacement.

But like Mark said make sure each night is worth it and unless you are always working nights charge for the day before and after the job you that you won't be working.
__________________
Isaac

Higher Standard Tile & Stone
Maui, Hawaii
CTEF Certified Tile Installer #673


Maui Professional Tile & Stone Installation
Higher Standard Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-25-2014, 09:11 PM   #7
GM-Columbia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 17
Isaac,

All epoxy grouts that I know about require a week to cure before the floor can be placed back into normal service. All restaurateurs want to operate as normal with no shut-down. Also, I do not yet know of a readily available epoxy grout that is resistant to acids, especially oleic and lactic acids that are common breakdown products from enzymatic cleaners and from digestion by normally occurring bacteria.

The Ardex FL grout cures hard enough for normal use in 90 minutes and is more durable than other Portland cement grouts we have used.

Bruce
GM-Columbia is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-25-2014, 09:45 PM   #8
Jim Cordes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 728
Isn't that the grout that you have to wait an hour before you wash it?

What about furan, http://www.summitville.com/pdfs/S-4000.pdf

Also the 7 days epoxy grout thing is cheated all the time. I never seen epoxy get damaged after two days..maybe one ..depends on the brand..for what thats worth.
__________________
Jim

Last edited by Jim Cordes; 05-25-2014 at 09:52 PM.
Jim Cordes is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-26-2014, 12:28 AM   #9
Higher Standard Tile
Tile and Stone Contractor
 
Higher Standard Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maui
Posts: 3,644
Bruce,

The 2000 IG is Laticrete's Industrial Strength epoxy. It will be much more resistant to acids and enzymatic cleaners than normal epoxy grout or any cement based grout.

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/d...ts/lds0300.pdf

It probably doesn't cure as fast as the Ardex but it cures much faster than normal epoxy grouts.

At 70 degrees time to light traffic is 8 hours, full chemical resistance is 7 days. But that is faster than cement grout which are never chemical resistant.

It is expensive and a pain to work with but still easier than old school industrial grouts and is designed for commercial kitchens.

Mapei also makes a industrial grade Kerapoxy-
http://www.mapei.com/public/US/produ...IEG_TDS_EA.pdf

Custom too-
http://www.custombuildingproducts.co...ut/ceg-ig.aspx

These are all a step up from their normal epoxy grouts. They are more chemical resistant and set up faster.

Ardex also makes an epoxy grout and they recommend it for areas exposed to chemicals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardex FL Data Sheet
For high chemical resistance and specialized applications,
please refer to the ARDEX WA™ Epoxy Grout and
Adhesive technical brochure
If the existing kitchen was cement grout and they just want a quick repair to last a few more years I understand using a fast setting cement grout.

I'm just mentioning these products if they want a more permanent solution to their grout problems.
Of course what is the chance they will stay off any floor long enough to allow the products to cure?
__________________
Isaac

Higher Standard Tile & Stone
Maui, Hawaii
CTEF Certified Tile Installer #673


Maui Professional Tile & Stone Installation
Higher Standard Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-27-2014, 08:42 PM   #10
GM-Columbia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 17
Pricing Survey

Thanks to all for your responses. Let me explain my position on use of industrial grade epoxy grout in commercial kitchens. I agree that they are the ideal product for new installations where you can allow a week of cure time before they go into service. And ditto for remodel projects where the restaurant is scheduled to be out of service for at least a week. But when those conditions don't apply, premature breakdown of the epoxy grout is likely--in as little as 9 months.

Extrapolating from the Laticrete SpectraLOCK 2000 IG PDS: Cure time @ 75° F before exposure to foot traffic = 7 hours, before exposure to chemicals = 6 days.

Mapei's PDS for Kerapoxy IEG states: "Grout must be fully cured before regular cleaning", "Keep free from heavy traffic for at least 12 hours after grouting", "Protect from traffic...5 to 12 hours", and "Full cure...4 days". It also states that 7-day cured IEG is not resistant to 10% acetic acid or 10% lactic acid, but does not indicate how resistant it is to lower concentrations of these commonly present acids on restaurant kitchen floors. The Mapei PDS also states: "Remove or rinse fatty acid residue from the grout surface to avoid potential grout deterioration caused by prolonged exposure." Fatty acids are among the enzymatic breakdown products from cooking oils, fats and other organic matter on restaurant floors.

Unfortunately, my clients are all operating restaurants, and we need to perform all of our work after hours between shifts. So we need a product that cures fast, hard, and dense. Ardex FL is at least partially water repellant when cured, so it does not the absorb acidic water deep into joint like less dense sanded grouts. The damaging constituents mostly remain on the surface where they can drain off and be washed down, rather than soaking down deep where they remain to dissolve the grout mass from the inside out. Therefore, when we must re-grout in a commercial kitchen that cannot be shut down long enough for epoxy grout to cure properly, Ardex FL is one of the best options.

Now, what I need more than ever, is to find out what the going rate for this service is around the country so that I can establish a baseline price here in my region. Most of my prospective customers have had horrible experiences with contractors just slathering new grout into the greasy grout joints--but they do it cheaply. So the problem I have is that they have come to expect cheap prices and poor work. It would help if I could show that good tile contractors--like the ones who frequent this forum--are charging more for high quality results.

And BTW, my $5.00/square foot rate roughly equates to about $75/hour + cost of materials.

Thanks.

Bruce
GM-Columbia is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-27-2014, 11:23 PM   #11
Giuseppex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Monterey, California
Posts: 212
I am not a contractor but I say why ask us and just set the standard for your region.

In our area we have disaster cleanup guys and the like. Sub them out to strip the floors of grease and residue and then have your crew head on in with proper tools to remove, scratch and install grout. The kitchen staff can deal with a floor covered in felt or working paper for a day or two while it sets.

What's your price?
__________________
Giuseppe
Giuseppex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-29-2014, 07:09 AM   #12
jcsa
Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,063
Price

Bruce,
You need to set your price based on labor , overhead and what you want to make in profit. Everyone across the country has different labor costs, so it is difficult to pin that down. I would darn sure charge a premium for that type of work due to the conditions and hours needed to be done. I would not worry about what anyone else charges. If you do a great job, the word will spread. It is a travesty when everyone charges what the next guy does. How do you know what the profit margins are of the next guy? If he is charging x and goes out of business, and you charge the same where does that leave you? If you create a niche, then trying to compete on price becomes less as a factor.

I have seen guys drive the same beat up truck for twenty years. I asked them why they could not buy a new or newer truck and their answer was they could not afford it. They let their competition or builders tell them what to charge for their work. That's nuts. That's why the prices in this business continue to stay where they are. It takes guts to go on a limb and charge the prices you should charge for. Work is easing where guys should take more control and raise their installation prices. If you don't do it now it will never happen. You can gradually raise them by 8-10 % and I can assure you that it will not make a big impact on getting or not getting the job, but will make a difference in your bottom line. Enough rambling. Good Luck John Cox
__________________
JC
Certified Tile Installer # 26
Cox Tile, Inc.

jcsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-29-2014, 07:45 PM   #13
Scottish Tile and Stone
Ohio Tile Contractor.. Hydroban shower specialist
 
Scottish Tile and Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Painesville Ohio
Posts: 5,107
I charge by the day.
__________________
Scott.

www.scottishtileandstone.com
Laticrete hydroban showers
Mud set stone.

ditra kerdi stone showers waterproof mudset stone backsplashes glass tiles,laticrete, hydroban,ohio,cleveland,painesville,backsplashes,
Scottish Tile and Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-29-2014, 10:10 PM   #14
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,021
I was just looking at an old invoice from 12 years ago and I figured 6.00 (plus materials) a sq ft then and I'm in Texas. Like John said, get your prices up. If you do it cheap now, they'll expect the same later.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
jb survey silvercitytile The Mud Box 30 05-02-2010 10:42 AM
Survey says..... ?? protile Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 03-26-2009 05:05 PM
Just a survey... michaelhazuka The Mud Box 16 02-24-2005 02:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:18 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC