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Unread 11-25-2020, 01:51 PM   #16
markch
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Waterproofing and tiling in earthquake country

Hi all,
I don't often see earthquakes addressed in tutorials. In Southern California we've had a few tremors over the last year, and of course a big one will eventually come. Are there special considerations to take into account when the walls will not always be standing still? My waterproofing plan is durock+ laticrete hydro ban since I'm assuming a rubberized membrane is more crack resistant than unmodified thinset + kerdi. What about tiling? Should corners (both between walls and walls+floor) be silicone sealant instead of grout ( I hear mixed messages on this).
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Unread 11-25-2020, 03:01 PM   #17
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Welcome, Mark.

I've combined your first five threads on this shower planning for continuity and so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one. It would be helpful if you'd add your geographic location to your User Profile.

I disagree on your assessment of the use of a liquid-applied waterproofing membrane instead of a sheet-type to provide better movement accommodation. I think if you were to provide 1/4" gaps in your wallboard at the wall corners and give the sheet membrane a bit of a "wedgie" at those corners you'd provide a much stronger movement accommodation joint than with your liquid membrane.

Add a decent joint in your tile surface, filled with a flexible sealant, and you'll have done about all you can to protect a ceramic tile shower.


My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-26-2020, 09:49 AM   #18
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Thanks for the merge of threads, makes sense for organization.
So 1/4” gap, then tape joints before water proofing?

How about the gap between tiles at wall junctions and wall/ floor?


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Unread 11-26-2020, 09:55 AM   #19
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Depends upon your choice of waterproofing membrane, Mark. See post #17.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 08:59 AM   #20
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How is thinset related to lions and crickets?

Starting a new thread since 90% of it doesn't have to do with my actual build, and the remaining 10% doesn't really either.

I've been a big fan of bike racing, and in my formative years one of the most dominant teams came from Italy. Two riders who would win with the most grit and flair in decades were Johan Museeuw, and Paolo Bettini. Museeuw was known as the Lion of Flanders, and Bettini 'el grillo', or the cricket, and were experts in winning "The Classics". These are mostly Belgian/Dutch races that are best described as the love children of stock car racing and bar fights that happen to wear spandex and ride bikes. They are pure joy to watch, and effectively a different sport from the Tour de France that you may have seen.

That team was sponsored by... Mapei. There was no reason for me to come across building products back then, so I had no idea what it was other than a colorful jersey. Now every photo of a Mapei thinset invokes nostalgia for 90's bike racing (minus the rampant doping).

Having said all that, time for tile advice - I really want to use Mapei products somehow, but it seems like they are left behind in the Laticrete/Schluter era. Prove me wrong.

On a separate and related note, I'm committed to using Hansgrohe shower parts.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 10:10 AM   #21
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Mark, if you wanna talk about bike racing, start a thread in the Mud Box. We welcome such topics there.

I've again combined your new thread with your project thread so folks can see where it is you want to use MAPEI products and guess which ones they might be.

MAPEI makes many very good products and there are lots of threads both here and in the Hangout about their relative merits and usage. You'll find, I think, that a good deal of the usage of various products in various sections of the country is based upon availability. There is certainly no reason not to use MAPEI if the products you want are available to you.

I've no idea what is and is not available or popular in your part of the country, but perhaps someone else will. I know that is some areas MAPEI products are available through Lowe's stores, but I don't even know if Lowe's has outlets in LA.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-03-2020, 06:12 PM   #22
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Current trends: niche or shelf?

I'm a fan of the Schluter SHELF-E over a niche. Curious if the pros here are seeing more clients go shelf-e over niche? Plus seems like a big time save on the install. A youtube video shows large-format tiles supporting a few cinder blocks.
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Unread 12-03-2020, 11:35 PM   #23
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Another question -- my back hurts all the time, and probably will hurt more after this project is done. A steam shower would of course help with that. I don't have the appetite to do this now, but aside from encasing the entire structure in Wedi/Schluter/Hydroban sheet membrane, is there anything else I could do to make it ready to install later? Pre-route a pipe for the steam?
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Unread 12-24-2020, 09:26 AM   #24
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I want to avoid going to the hardware store as much as possible "in these days". Can I use some surplus galvanized square mesh to prep a floor to build a deck mud shower pan?

Also, is it possible to just use paint primer as a cleavage membrane under the lathe?
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Unread 12-24-2020, 09:49 AM   #25
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That hardware cloth is basically held together by the galvanizing material it's coated with, Mark, no real shear reinforcement available. Will it work for placing a shower pre-slope? I dunno. Maybe. For sure it won't grip the deck mud as will the expanded metal lath you should be using.

The primary purpose of the cleavage membrane under such a deck mud placement is to keep the wood substrate from drawing moisture out of the mud before the mud has a chance to cure. The two most common material recommendations are roofing felt and polyethylene sheeting. I don't think I'd depend upon paint primer to do the job, but you can if you want. I'd rather see you use some plastic garbage bags or an old shower curtain or similar if you don't wanna buy a specific product.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-24-2020, 10:43 AM   #26
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Thanks, CX -- looks like a trip to the HW store is in my future to pick up the proper products.

Happy holidays,
-Mark
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Unread 12-27-2020, 11:23 AM   #27
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Practice shower pan

Last night I practiced mixing dry mortar and packing down. The mortar (pictured) says 15-17% water by weight, which I measured using an old scale. This did not have the "dry snowball" texture - this was wet enough to sort of jiggle when I tried to pack it down (in Los Angeles we need a beach sand metaphor though).

Since I added water first, it may have been when the spring coil had poor response and much more water than what was read off on the scale was added.

In any case, I added enough mortar to reach 8-10% water by weight. What is the typical range, and is by eye often better than measuring it out?

The observations from 10 minutes of packing mortar:
- The dry sand is way easier to pack down
- No matter how I packed around the edges to make the level perimeter, there was always a little slope going up to the wall. I used the trowel to "cut" the slope away.
- It was hard to make smooth. Does this matter?
- The wet part was a lot easier to make smooth by scraping away the top layer. I doubt it was very flat though.

I'd like to test for structural integrity somehow, but I also didn't line the plywood with tar paper so it may be moot.
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Unread 12-27-2020, 11:26 AM   #28
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Photos of practice

Forgot attachments. The practice pan has "wet" deck mud on the left half, "dry" on the right.
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Unread 12-27-2020, 11:37 AM   #29
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Also, CX, thanks for the head's up on polyethylene sheeting - I have a ton of that and will go with it to block moisture wicking
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Unread 12-27-2020, 11:42 AM   #30
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Mark, that Type S mortar is not what you want for your deck mud. You want a mix of 5 parts sand and 1 part Portland cement for that. If you don't have sand and cement available, please go to the Shower Construction section of our Liberry and you'll find the ratios of common bagged products you can find at your home center that will result in an acceptable mix.

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