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Unread 09-12-2020, 09:18 PM   #121
cx
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Unless you plan to tile directly to that second layer of plywood it is not an underlayment, it's a second layer of structural subflooring. Yeah, I know what the article says, but it's not correct and I wish they'd stop calling it that.

And all layers of structural subflooring must be installed with the strength axis perpendicular to the joists. So, #2 is the only option among your two presented choices.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-12-2020, 09:39 PM   #122
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Got it on both counts. Thx!
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Unread 09-13-2020, 09:04 PM   #123
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I am happy I didn't go crazy. It was easy to prop the severed chord up.

1. Any reason not to leave these supports in (with glue + screws) - in addition to the vertical 2 x 4?

2. To attach the vertical 2 x 4 is decking screws enough or go with something that can handle more sheer force like tapcons?

Thx!
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Unread 09-13-2020, 09:24 PM   #124
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1. None at all.

2. Tapcons not appropriate to the application. Those are for anchoring into concrete.

You want to use decking screws of 2 1/2" or longer and construction adhesive. I recommend you pre-drill your added 2x4.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-17-2020, 10:24 PM   #125
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Any best practices to attach a metal sole plate to the subfloor?

1. What screws? 1-5/8" again so that they go through both 3/4" subfloor layers?

2. How often? The builder seems to originally put one every 16" between the studs.

3. Unlike wooden studs, I am assuming a metal stud doesn't need to be snug against the top plate. 1/2" from the top for easy insertion between the bottom and top plates?

Thx!
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Unread 09-18-2020, 07:07 AM   #126
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If the top layer of 3/4" subfloor is properly attached to the bottom layer then you don't really need the screws to go into the bottom layer. The 1 5/8" screws are longer than needed but will work fine. I'd screw it down about every foot, front and back. This isn't a load bearing wall so the studs don't need to be snug against the top plate
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Unread 09-18-2020, 11:52 AM   #127
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I am making a last minute change. Originally, in my tests the 2 x 4 KDAT Ply did really well. It was awesome not to have to drill it first before shooting the ramset in. Also, it would have established a consistent surface to push the tub's flange against. On the flip side, I would need to use two pieces per furring strip and use 1/4" ply or pvc to handle the ramset washers and nail heads sticking out of the surface. Granted, the 1/4" shim is necessary anyway to overlap the CBU over the tub's flange.

But, after ripping the 2 x 4 ply and trying to get it flat against the wall is just wasn't working well. I don't have enough hands to hold two pieces against the wall as well as a level
Even more, it just seems low quality (despite the KDAT rating). Throughout most pieces that I ripped, there would be places where the internal layers is doubled not once, but twice, resulting in the piece not being flat. Only a little more than about 1/16" diviation but I am still not happy about it.
I suspect it is because this product is sold as a "project panel" for dog houses or the like and not a more structural oriented product.

I am falling back to the 5/4" PT 3" rips. I know.. I know.. PT... But, it sat here for more than a month and a half and the moisture level did drop from 53% to 15% to 20% depending on the board (and I have enough of the drier boards). Comes with a lifetime warranty which is hopefully indicative of the quality.
Putting it against the wall results in a nice flat (and even level) surface. I suspect the fact that it is one continuous piece help smooth things out a bit.
Planning to bore a hole for the ramset washer and nail head with a Forstner Bit and drill a clearance hole.
Instead of shimming 1/4" to account for the tub's flange, I am planning to remove 1/4" strip of the 5/4" board. It will need to be consistent across the boards but I am thinking I can support a wide oscillating tool blade against a 3/4" scrap.
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Unread 09-19-2020, 04:04 PM   #128
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do you think 3/4" poly iso board isolation cut to fit between the 5/4" x 3" furring strips act as a second moisture barrier? If not, is it because we assume moisture will evaporate upwards to the attic? If it were to drip down to the subfloor it would not be a good thing obviously...
Would punctured faced fiberglass insulation be a safer bet?
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Unread 09-19-2020, 05:09 PM   #129
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It would likely function as a moisture barrier in the area it's covering, Dan, but it's not gonna be a vapor barrier in your wall because of all the gaps and moisture vapor is all that should ever be entering that cavity.

If you have actual moisture entering there it will be coming from the exterior and you should correct that condition before you close up the interior side. There will be no moisture coming from the shower side unless you make some serious installation errors.

If you got a lot of moisture vapor in there and Florida somehow moved five or ten degrees north, and if the dew point in your wall was reached within that cavity, you might have some moisture issues, but I doubt either of those conditions will manifest, but, again, that could also depend upon the exterior treatment of those block walls. Well, that and how far the next ice age moves south this time.

Bottom line? You want to add some insulation, I don't think that would be a problem.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-19-2020, 05:50 PM   #130
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LOL, ok. will do. As far as I can tell other than paint and stucco nothing else was put on these walls. Since the area above the furring strips is open to the attic, conceivably it may be possible to check in a few years what is going on behind there...

Thx for the help.
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Unread 09-20-2020, 02:29 PM   #131
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1. Any special recommendations for stud placement in a side wall (opposite the drain) for a 30" alcove tub?
I know we want at least 3 studs in there as oppose to just two 16" O.C.
My question is specifically around stud #3. It seems like it is common to place the 3rd stud beyond the tub (say at 32") and then stiffen this "king" stud with a perpendicular stud. Meaning the tub's apron doesn't sit against stud #3 but instead against another stud that is placed the wide side against the sole plate and tub's side. Does that make sense? Did I get this right?

3. If so, it seems it is common to nail this stud after the tub is in to help place the alcove tub in?

4. Stud #2 will be cut in half to make room for a niche. Does it require a special reinforcements being it will be cut? I am assuming that not being we exceeding the 16 O.C. requirements anyway.

5. The tub is 30" and the width of a common CBU sheet is 36". I am assuming there is no reason to cut the CBU down to 30" even though only 31" or so will be tiled. I am comfortable speckling these extra few inches.

Loving these 20 gauge studs. I can believe i never used them before. So much sturdier!
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Unread 09-20-2020, 03:34 PM   #132
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1. No. I don't know.

2. Did I miss one?

3. I generally leave the bottom of the studs at one end of a tub location unfastened in either new construction or remodeling work when feasible until the tub is installed.

4. Presuming a non loadbearing wall, you would need a sill and a header, each a single 2x4, between the two adjacent studs to cut a niche into that space.

5. If your tub is 30" wide I'd expect you to be waterproofing and tiling at least 33" including the tub leg to the floor. The rest can be finished as though it were drywall.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #133
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1. Re #1, please see the attached pics with the studs in place but not fastened.
See how stud #3 will be beyond the tub's apron and the apron will be against that opposite oriented stud at the 30" mark? Just trying to make sure I did it right.

2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cx
Presuming a non loadbearing wall, you would need a sill and a header, each a single 2x4, between the two adjacent studs to cut a niche into that space.
Will a 20 gauge stud work instead of a 2 x 4? Just trying to avoid wood as much as possible. If not, I'll use a 2 x 4 but treat it with timbor before I do.

Thx for the help
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Unread 09-20-2020, 07:31 PM   #134
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Far as I know you can frame the whole thing with steel stud material, Dan, but I honestly am not familiar with the requirements for framing such openings with steel. I've done it in only one house more than 20 years ago and I was doing it the way I was being told, which didn't give me a whole lot of insight into the planning and requirements for most of the operation.

Perhaps we've got some steel framers lurking out there that can help.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2020, 08:32 PM   #135
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no worries.

1. If this was wood framing, do you put a 2 x 4 perpendicular like that against the regular stud by the apron as well?

2. Sorry, one more metal framing question in case anyone knows.
Attached is a pic of the current studs. To be pedant, shouldn't the 2nd stud be pointing the other way? I thought that otherwise you risk nails popping, since opposing studs will pulling the opposite way. Maybe not so much a concern with a CBU vs. drywall.

3. See that drier and washing machine electrical lines (pic #2)? Any reason not to have them go 1 inch above the sole plate and then go up behind the first stud? Reasons:
a. I am replacing all the studs and this way I wouldn't need to notch the face sides of the studs.
b. When notching, I'll need to protect the face of the studs with a metal plates so that no one drill to them by accident. I have done it before but just a bit of a pain. You need to take a metal plate that meant for wood studs, flatten its provided "nails/fins", drill holes, attach to studs with sheet metal screws.
c. They way they are routed right now, they rub against the hot copper line.

Not critical if it should remain as is, but will make my life easier if I can route through the bottom instead.
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Last edited by arnav; 09-20-2020 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Added #3
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