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Old 03-08-2013, 06:55 PM   #1
hoogguns
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DIY'er Doing A Master Bathroom Remodel

Ok, so I have been taking this project SLOW and STEADY to ensure I do things right. This project started as a small project of tiling the floor only, until I ripped up the linoleum & found mold I thought the mold was going to be everywhere (which is why I ended up with a complete remodel instead of just doing a tile floor).

Well needless to say, after removal of shower (down to the studs) the mold issue was confined to a small area of roughly 3' x 1', removal of the shower turned out to be unnecessary as the subfloor under the shower was in prime condition. And after allowing the floor time to dry with fans going and windows open the worst of the mold was in a relatively small 6" x 6" area. I know this is all good news, but as I said it would've been nice to have been able to just do a tile floor.

I guess it was a blessing in disguise because if I just did the floor I wouldn't have done the research that I have done, I probably would've just gone forward with the tile install without looking into the load that the floor can bare, etc.

(please see pictures -- I will post before pictures as well as pictures during the demo process -- some of the shots are "panoramic pictures" of the entire bathroom)

So that brings me to now, I have purchased JB's books and have studied my butt off on all the little things that I would never have thought of before starting the project.

I really just want to get a thread started so I can start receiving advice from the masters out there, and as John says in his book these forums and members pride themselves on being friendly and courteous to everyone from the person who can't work a screw driver to the professionals who can do amazing things with bathrooms in less time than it has taken me to get my room demo'd.

To start with here are some details: house built in 2001, my subfloor is 23/32 Plywood, the room also had a layer of 1/4" plywood on top of the subfloor & directly underneath the linoleum; the flooring is on 24" centers with 10" joists (the joists say "SilentFloor" from boise cascade if that helps identify them at all).

First I would like to know what do I need to do to the floor to get it ready to accept 12x12 tile (found at Lowes called Floriana Heather). The tile is rather thin and is not that heavy at all. I have purchased an assortment of materials: Hardi Backer in 1/4" & 1/2", Durock NexGen Board in 1/2" & Kerdi 54sq ft roll; also purchased some more 1/4" plywood which was ripped to size (and also so it could fit in my car); and finally a piece of 23/32 Plywood (also cut to 3'x8' & 1'x8'). In my years as a DIY'er I have collected a big assortment of tools, power tools, etc.

On the same topic of getting my floor ready...we want to have a tiled shower floor, and I know the hole that is cut currently is way too big. Can I install the 3/4" plywood I purchased on top of the plywood currently in the shower in order to kill two birds w/ one stone? I'm thinking it would allow me to not have to cut out any of the floor in place & replace with new plywood & also allow me to be able to drill a correct hole size for the drain...?

I have a million and 1 questions, but I'm gonna leave it at that. I'll get this posted and then include some photos.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #2
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Here are some photo's before/during/current
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:31 PM   #3
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Some more photos
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:03 PM   #4
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You can add more plywood if you want but that's 3/4 higher that your shower floor will be. I would get a 3 piece clamping drain and cut the hole so the little nubs on the drain will rest on the plywood like in this pic.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:08 PM   #5
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I would also remove more tiles off the end of the tub deck. I would want to waterproof the shower deck back under the glass toward the bathtub.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:01 AM   #6
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Davy, thanks a million for the response, and even a pic to boot! i really appreciate it. I have removed and demo'd the entire bathroom with the exception of the tub itself & framing (still in place) and toilet (to be removed this tmrw). This pic should show the tub with all tile removed. There is no more tile in the bathroom.

I don't mind raising the floor 3/4" at all if it can provide enough strength for the area to be tiled with a pan poured...as for rest of bathroom. Should I reinstall new 1/4" plywood to replace the 1/4" I removed? Also, on top of that should I use 1/4 or 1/2" backer substrate? And any recommendations between hardie/durock/kerdi backer??

Here is the pic of tub in current shape.

Also, I don't think the builder used a cement backer board, I think it was just greenboard. How do I get the backer board on the walls to match up with the 1/2" greenboard since it is about 1/10" thinner??
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:08 AM   #7
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Sorry the pic in last post wasn't the one I wanted, instead it is a panagraphic shot of the entire bathroom from last week. The vanity has been removed. Here is a better shot of tub with all tile & backing removed. Thank u so much for your replies!! I never join forums because they tend to turn into "I know more than you do -- and you shouldn't be doin this job." Such a breath of fresh air, thanks again!
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:15 AM   #8
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I'm sorry, I these are my backer board options that I have purchased: hardie; durock; and ditra (not whatever Kardi or whatever I was calling it in the other posts)
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:27 AM   #9
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Ok, first of all, are you going back with tile on the bath floor or stone? It's always good to check your floor with the "Deflecto" you see in the dark blue bar above. Your floor needs to be twice as strong for stone than for tile. Leave the 1/4 inch plywood off.

To get the cement board (CBU) flush with the sheetrock, use 1/2 inch CBU on the walls. You can use either thickness for the floors, usually 1/4 inch is used to hold down the height. Or, use the Ditra, it's only about 1/8 thick and easier to install. Kerdi is for shower walls. As you can see, you have some decisions to make.

Is the tub resting on the plywood tub deck or was it resting on the tile? It's designed to rest on the tile.

If you haven't, check out the "shower construction info" thread in the liberry. Lot's of good reading in there that will help . Pichers included.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #10
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Ok so the flooring before I started this project was Linoleum (Vinyl I believe); the bath floor has never been tiled, again home built in 2001 and the Linoleum is what was installed by the builder.

As far as underneath the tub, it was/is/and always has been just as in the pic, so it is just resting on the plywood & the framing built around the tub.

How do I test "deflecto" I have read that there is a formula, but I haven't the foggiest idea what it is. Here is what I know: 10" Joists (called "SilentFloor" by Boise Cascade) on 24" centers; Plywood is 23/32 "underlayment" glued & nailed to the joists. I'm gonna post pictures that I took from my basement (these pictures are looking up at the bottom of the subfloor on the main level -- the bathroom I'm working on is on the 2nd story, but I would assume the flooring is the same...in case the pictures don't turn out, this is what the plywood stamp says:

Rated Sturd-I-Floor
24oc 23 /32 INCH
SIZED FOR S,P ***unreadable
M&G NET WIDTH 47-3.5"
EXPOSURE 1
221
PSI-95 UNDERLAYMENT

..there is more to the stamp but I can't find any stamps that are legible.

As for the Joists, this is what the stamp says:

Silent Floor
14 TJI/Pro 250 (a symbol of a cirlce & a diamond)
ICBOES PFC4354HUD 689 CCMC 12832-R NER-200 07 16 01

Davy, hopefully you or someone you know can "decode" this...

As for what I plan to install it is a thin tile called Floriana Heather Glazed Porcelain Tile 12" x 12" purchased from lowes (here is a link to the tile: http://www.lowes.com/pd_399396-47603...ductId=3772851 )

I do appreciate all the help!!

-Brandon
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:47 PM   #11
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Sorry I am over thinking everything these days, I calculated the deflection at L310, but not sure I am right with the width on my joists can u tell me what u think by this picture the joists is like an "I beam" which part do I use in the calculator for joist width? If I use the top or bottom part of the "I beam" I get 2" which makes my deflection at L410...?

So I am right on the verge of being ok for tile, all depends on my joists. Also I have no clue what they are made out of, looks like if its Douglas fur or SYP it makes a big difference...
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:21 PM   #12
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Brandon, you cannot calculate the deflection of engineered joist systems. You must either call the manufacturer and give him the dimensions and specifications you have, or look up the manufacturer's published span tables online. Our Deflectolator and other dimension wood span tables are useless for calculations regarding those joist systems.

It is very unusual for such systems to be designed to less than code minimum of L/360 and more common to see L/480. That makes them fine for ceramic tile but rarely for natural stone.

Biggest concern is generally the spacing between the joists, which I see you indicate to be 24" on center. I would not install ceramic tile on that floor without the addition of at least nominal 1/2" plywood before your tiling substrate.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:11 PM   #13
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Actually i just found that info on their website, looks like i have an L/420 deflection. And I am not installing stone, simply a very light weight porcelain tile.

As for the 1/2" ply on top of 3/4" I can do that, I guess the 1/4" plywood that I bought & had cut will have to be used somewhere else maybe my next project (i knew i should've trusted my research and not listened to the guy at lowes who told me if I do 1/2" then the transition from bedroom to bathroom will be a step up and the only reason to use another layer of ply is to adjust the height of the room...oh well we live and learn, I have researched the heck outta this and knew I needed 1/2" ply laid down and not 1/4" but I started doubting myself.

Anyways, as for the 1/2" plywood (I should only need 2 sheets as my bathroom is 9' x 8' (72sq ft) and the tub takes up 20sq ft. So I need ~52 sq ft of 15/32 plywood, correct? And before I go get the plywood can you let me know if the tub has to come out or not?
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
...i knew i should've trusted my research and not listened to the guy at lowes...
Yeah, always better to listen to strangers you find onna Internet than strangers you find locally.

Be sure to install that second layer of plywood with the strength axis (long side) perpendicular to the joists.

Removing the tub is certainly optional and has nothing at all to do with your subflooring. I would find it pretty difficult to make a good job of tiling around that tub without removing it, though. Different strokes.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:55 PM   #15
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Ok so I have purchased all required materials to lay 1/2" nominal plywood in my bathroom on top of the 3/4" currently in place. Before I lay this down I would like to ask a quick question or two:

First, can someone please explain to me how adding another layer of plywood will help with deflection (as opposed to adding to the deflection)? I mean I know there is a rhyme & reason behind it, but I am just one of those types who has to know "why" I am doing something before I actually do it. To me it seems as if it would just add weight to the already "weak" 10" I-joist w/ 3/4" plywood on 24" centers.

Secondly, right now I have a threshold "down" into the bathroom. After this layer + backerboard I will be above creating a step up into bathroom (how big of a PIA is that gonna be)?

Is they a rule of thumb for walk in showers? Meaning if I have 2 walls + 1 glass wall, and the shower is 42" deep x 36" wide (when facing shower) and shower head is on right wall (hopefully this creates a mental image that makes sense). Would this suffice for a walk in shower? What about one of the (hidden in floor drains?) I just really want to make what was a 36x36 shower into a shower that feels bigger and more luxorious

Finally, last question (for now anyways )...we are likely not going to be in this home much longer (wish I'd found that out before beginning this project), however the skeptic I try to be sees an opportunity to increase home value. What kinds of changes will add value? For example, would it be worth moving shower and toilet to allow for a bigger shower? What about getting rid of tub to create an enormous walkin shower? Are we to that point yet where homeowners realize they don't use bathtubs that often and would prefer a nice walk in shower? Tile material? Heated floor? Etc. (all comparables will likely all be linoleum only in the bathroom).

I appreciate all your help! Have a great night all!

-Brandon
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