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Unread 12-10-2007, 02:01 AM   #1
randybuster
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Randys bathroom project

I have spent many hours reading this site and i am very impressed. First time tiler long -time reader. Thanks in advance. I hope i can repay the favors someday. Now...to the point

i am in the demo stage and still stocking up supplies to get this project rolling .

Bath is 7x11 with a failed deflecto (or pass depending on lumber)
1.5 x 7.25 joists-16 inch spacing- 11 foot span-unknown composition. house was well built in 1935 with re-used lumber in good condition.
sub floor is 1x6 pine layed diagnal covered by 15/32 outdoor grade plywood
1/4 hardi on floor
1/2 hardi transition to green board on walls
tile is porcelean rialto rated 5 hardness 12x12 and 6x6 on the floor and 4x4 on the walls.
I will be installing a acrylic neo-angle shower and acrylic jacuzzi drop in redguard will be used around the deck and infront of the shower on the floor

no room in basement for supporting beams....so i am hoping there are no major concerns on the deflecto but all coments are welcome.

1. What are your thinset recomendations (please be brand specific) for under hardi and under the tile. please specify if i need to use differnet thinset for the tub deck. quality is my concern-not price.

2. grout manufacturer recomendations.

3. Is 1/8 spacing on the floor ok for a 12x12 and 6x6 patten.....what spacing is required for 4x4 on the walls.

i purchsed a gallon of tile lab sealer....the walls will be tiled about 40 inches high and 50% of the floor is tile ....i plan to return the tile lab product and buy Bullet Proof.... will one gallon be enough?

thanks again....Randy
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Unread 12-10-2007, 05:30 AM   #2
scuttlebuttrp
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Thinset and grout manufacturers are all good at what they do. Where are you getting your supplies from? What part of the country do you live? They all have top of the line products.
Don't know squat about carpentry so I can't help you there.
Grout lines should be what you want. If you have really goods tile (Rectified?) then there shouldn't be a problem with tight joints. Take a piece from a few boxes. If they are a little bit different then you might have problems.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 05:52 AM   #3
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i am in S.E. wisconsin and shop where ever the best products are sold. So far i have used only the chain stores. The tiles (from Lowes) are varing in size so i planed on larger grout lines but would like to know the industry standard for the sake of aprearance.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 09:36 AM   #4
Brian in San Diego
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Randy,

Thinset and grout preferences are sometimes just that...preferences. What you want to avoid are the "econo" brands made by almost all of the manufacturers. I think it would be easier to give us an idea of what's available to you. If you have a HD, they carry thinsets from Custom Bldg. Their Versabond is a good slightly modified thinset. You could use it above and below your hardiebacker.

I am curious on how you plan to waterproof your shower. You mention Redguard in front of the shower. Are you going to apply Redguard over the CBU on the walls? How high are you going to take the CBU to meet the greenboard?

Grout spacing is like Royce said a matter of preference and what the tile will allow you to "get away" with.

If you are using ceramic tile and are using the Bulletproof to seal the grout then a quart is way more than you'll need.

Brian
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Unread 12-10-2007, 09:42 AM   #5
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Randy, a quart of sealer will likely be more than sufficient for your bathroom.

As far as the best brand to use, just because Bullet Proof is the most expensive doesn't make it best for your application. Bullet Proof is especially formulated for porous, highly absorptive stone. What type of tile will you be using? Heavy Duty is a good one to use if using a porcelain/ceramic tile when all you really need to seal is the grout. Heavy Duty also works well on most marble, travertine, and the darker, less absorptive granites.

There are so many excellent brands of thin-set mortars to choose from. Tell us what manufacturer lines (Mapei, Laticrete, TEC, Hydroment, Customs, etc.) are available to you locally and we can point you to some specific brands.

-------------

P.S. I see Brian posted while I was typing so some of what I've said duplicates his.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 01:45 PM   #6
randybuster
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deflection concerns

thanks for all the advice. My initail 11 foot span was incorect, it is 12 feet from the basement wall to the center support in the basement. I am going to try and sister a few 2x8 from the wall to the support beam. I am concerned about the deflection and want to do something but adding a support is not an option.

I have read a few coments about installing a jacuzzi access door in the floor going to the basement. Does anyone have pics of this? Do to my space limitations this would be a great option for me.

Brian, I am instlaling a one piece acrylic Maax shower so i dont have to worry about sealing it. The redguard is mainly for protection of the deck and walls of the tub, the floor in front of the shower is getting redguard just so i dont have to throw out the remaineder of the gallon i bought. I am getting a little overwhelmed by the bath alone. perhaps I will save tiling a shower for my next project.
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Unread 12-10-2007, 04:02 PM   #7
Brian in San Diego
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Randy,

Got it. When I read your original post I was thinking acrylic neo-angle shower base. Thought you were going to CBU the walls etc. I was just a little confused.

Brian
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Unread 12-11-2007, 12:01 AM   #8
randybuster
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admitting your wrong

i was wrong in ignoring the importance of deflection. A 250 lbs journeyman carpenter friend of mine came over after hearing i was only going to sister my joist together. He told me to stand in the basement while he jumped on the floor.....well...enough said.....in addition to beafing up the joists I will be adding a 4x4 steel support beam across the span of the bath. The steel will be significantly smaller than a 2x8 header and will allow for adequate clearance. My friend is a great guy but after all the work i put into this bath ...the big lug can use the outhouse in the back 40 from here on out.

im sure i will have more questions later. I will post pics as soon as i get farther than the destruction phase.
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Unread 12-13-2007, 04:53 PM   #9
randybuster
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tile opinion

Mike, Brain, (and perhaps anyone else) i wanted to ask your opinion. I am installing a white one piece acrylic neo angle shower. I am tiling the walls 40" high and floor with a rialto (off white) tile. The shower enclosure is about 80 inches high and the ceiling is 96". My question is ...would it look good to run bullnose 3x12 up the sides of the enclosure to the ceiling then tile the corner above the shower enclosure with the 4x4 tiles (like i used on the walls)?

my other option would be to just tile the walls 40" high and paint the drywall above the shower.

The walls of the enclosure are 1" deep so i will have plenty of room for drywall and/or tile.

I hope one of you have come across this before and perhaps know what i am talking about.

thanks again.
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Unread 12-13-2007, 05:31 PM   #10
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Hi Randy,

I've seen that done before, and it looks fine. The big problem with those showers is getting the drywall flat over the flange. You need to carve out the back of the drywall and flat tape to the shower stall. I you bend the drywall out over the flange it's going to look bad no matter what you do.
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Unread 12-13-2007, 11:21 PM   #11
randybuster
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I am lucky enough that i am actully building the wall that the shower is mounted on. I will rip 1/8" off the studs to make up the differance. Thanks for the heads up.

I am still a litlte leary on using 4x4 tiles on the walls, even with the deco peices mixed in.....thinking it may appear "grid like" when complete. Im a great worker ...not an artist.



Thanks John
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Unread 12-15-2007, 11:10 AM   #12
randybuster
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another sub floor question

The joists are now sistered together with a steel support beam. The joist span is now 6 ft. I will have diagonal 3/4 x 6 covered by 23/32 BC plywood for a subfloor. I believe the rule is to screw the 1x6 to the joists and the plywood is to be screwed to the 1x6 (missing the joists). My problem is that the i dont think the screws penetrating the 1x6 is adequate. Do you recommend glueing the plywood with liquid nails? or perhaps using 10% 3" screws through the plywood into the joists while the remainder 90% 1 1/5 screws into the 1x6.


option 1. 1 5/8 screws only (you worry to much randy)
option 2. glue with 1 1/2 screws
option 3. glue and 10% 1 1/2 and 90% 3" to joists
optin 4 ???
......
option 642 ????
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Unread 12-15-2007, 11:58 AM   #13
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Randy,

Screw the plywood to the 1x6, missing the joists. Use screws that will just poke through the bottom of the 1/6. 1-5/8 in. screws should be fine. No glue.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 04:28 AM   #14
randybuster
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drain line

i have two 1 1/2" drain lines exiting my house that discharge to a field tile. My toilet goes to a seperate mound system discharge. I dont really want to chop a hole in my basement floor to change this. The kitchen sink and shower will be the only drains going to this discharge field tile. The 1 1/2 drain lines for both (kitchen and shower) are 80% vertical and at the most 12 foot long. (ie. shower and sink are on first floor directly above the discharge). I have read what typical code is but i was still wondering if there were any horror stories of a 1 1/2 line failing anyone.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 09:26 AM   #15
Brian in San Diego
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Randy,

Don't know if there will be many "horror" stories about using 1 1/2" drains for a shower. There is a theory behind it and the UPC believes it's valid enough to make it "code". If you elect not to install your system to "code" I'm sure you won't be the first. If you elect to sell that house I think it'd be something that should be mentioned in light of "full disclosure". If you plan to live there for your entire life then I'd say what is said here on occasion..."It's your house, do what you want".

Brian
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