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Unread 08-19-2007, 05:48 PM   #1
jdjanka
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Simple question about pre-slope

Hi everybody,

I've been following this site for a few years now off and on (long term shower rebuild project that I've been putting off) and am finally getting off my lazy rear and getting in gear starting it. I've actually done all the tear-out and am down to the plywood subfloor. Shower is on the 2nd story.

I've attached a basic picture of the shower shape and dimensions. My question is pretty simple, but I couldn't really find anything that covered it exactly in the liberry or by doing a search. I know the pre-slope is supposed to be 1/4 inch per foot. Since my shower is a strange shape, I wasn't sure how to tackle the slope, since every single dimension will have a different slope angle. I figured I'd take the distance to the wall farthest from the drain and slope 1/4 per foot for that. In my case the farthest actual wall is about 28-30", which would be about a 1/2" to 5/8" slope.

But then I wondered, what about the distance to the corners? Taking these dimensions into account, the farthest distance is 35". This would require a slope of 3/4" higher than the drain to be at 1/4" per foot. I figured I'd just go with all sides being 3/4" higher than the drain to be safe, but what worries me about that is that the shortest distance from the drain to the nearest wall is 17.5 inches, and with a 3/4" slope across that distance, the slope would be 0.514" per foot. That seems really steep to me, and I'm afraid it would look weird with that one part being so steep and others being about half the slope angle.

If I went with all the sides being only 1/2" higher than the drain, that one short distance would be 0.34" per foot, but then some of the longer distances to the far corners would be less than the suggested 1/4" per foot (lowest would be 0.17" per foot).

Am I making too big a deal out of this? Should I just go with all walls being 3/4" higher than the drain? Or would I be okay with 1/2"? I consider myself pretty handy but definitely cautious - I don't want to have problems once it's all complete with water drainage, but then again I want it to look right and not feel strange walking from one part of the floor to another.

Thanks to everybody for all the awesome advice and information shared on this board! Don't konw what I would do without it!

Jason
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Unread 08-19-2007, 06:05 PM   #2
Davestone
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Jason when i have a situation like this if it looks like i'll have a slope that's too much for the tile, causing unavoidable lippage i'll take some of the pitch out at that wall,if it's close to the drain, and have a slight dip in the horizontal line, it's barely noticeable if you have a large cut at the wall to floor line.
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Unread 08-19-2007, 06:05 PM   #3
Jaz
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Hi Jason,

The spec is min. 1/4" per ft. of slope. Many of us go 3/8" whenever possible or if it just happens to turn out that way. More is ok, less slope and it's not going to drain well. I don't think 3/4" slope in 17" is too bad, anyway...no choice.

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Unread 08-19-2007, 07:14 PM   #4
chicagohandidude
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jaz,

i would hesitate to go under 1/4" per foot. i had a similar situation on a recent install. the drain was in the middle of a narrow rectangle. i followed the guidelines and used the slope height for the farthest point. which made the sides seem like they would be super-steep. i ignored my temptation to think my ideas are better than everyone else's... (hard to do! lol) and kept it that height. i am glad i did as it drains very well and is not at all noticeable as a problem to the homeowner...


good luck !

jb
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Unread 08-21-2007, 12:54 PM   #5
jdjanka
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Awesome, thanks for the replies everybody! I figured I was making too big of an issue out of it. I'll just stick with the edges all around being 3/4" higher than the drain. That way I'll have between 1/4 and 1/2" slope per foot depending on the plane.

Thanks again,
Jason
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Unread 07-12-2008, 01:45 PM   #6
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Do I need to insulate my pipes?

Hi all, sorry for the "stupid question title", but I'm in a bit of a dillemma. I'm in the final stages of my Kerdi shower - have all the drywall up and am about to put up the Kerdi. I got the Moen vertical spa set with 2 showerheads, hand shower, overhead rain shower, and 4 body sprays. My concern is that one of the walls of the shower is an external wall of the house (2nd story, frame build, stucco finish). The pipes on this wall are not the pressurized pipes, they are the pipes between the valve and fixtures. There are about 4 runs of approximately 4 feet of 3/4" CPVC, along with a few 45s and elbows.

I used kraft faced insulation between the plywood layer of the external wall and the drywall of the shower (the same cavity that the pipes run through. My dillemma is this: I've already put up the drywall and for one, it's a single piece about 4 feet by 7 feet and weighs a ton, and second, there are about 100 screws holding it up. Now I'm at the point where I'm about to put the Kerdi up, but I am concerned that I didn't use the round foam pipe insulation on the pipes. I could undo all the screws and take the drywall down and put the insulation on the pipes, but it would be a lot of work that I'm trying to avoid if I can. Then again, I'd hate to have everything done and have the pipes freeze some time in the future.

I live in Orlando, FL, and contrary to popular belief, it does freeze here. It gets down in the mid 20s every few years, and it will freeze at least once a year. Nothing horrible, but the sub-freezing temperature does worry me.

So, do you all think I would be okay with the way it is now? I have the exterior layer of stucco, then behind that 3/4" plywood with asphalt paper on both sides, then the 3 1/2" stud cavity filled with kraft face insulation. Where there were pipes, I took the insulation and separated it and took a little out so as not to "stuff" the insulation. So there is insulation already on all sides of the pipe, albeit only about an inch of the pink stuff behind and in front of them.

I'd rather not have to take the wall down, but I'd do it if I have to. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Jason
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Unread 07-12-2008, 02:15 PM   #7
jadnashua
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I think you'll be okay. Those pipes are likely to drain once you turn the valve off, and their outlet is open, so the expanding water if it did start to freeze has a relief path out the end of the pipe.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 11:57 AM   #8
jdjanka
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Should I be able to unpeel my Kerdi?

Hi all,

I purchased JB's book and Kerdi e-book in preparation for my Kerdi shower. Put up my first 8 foot tall sheets yesterday and checked them this morning, and although the thinset seems dry and hard, I was able to very easily peel back the Kerdi

I used the white Mapei thinset from Lowes (the 50 lb bag that is about $12/bag). I believe it is unmodified. I mixed it to a pancake batter-like consistency, it troweled on easily and held its notch shape well. I couldn't find a 3/16x1/4 v-notch trowel, so I used a 3/16x5/32 v-notch one - could that be my problem? I hit HD at lunch today and got a 1/8x1/8 square notch trowel (the alternate size John recommends in his e-book), hopefully that will help.

I'm wondering if I should pull the whole sheets down and re-try? I'm afraid with the way it is now, if I put a tile up on top of it, it would peel the kerdi right off the wall.

Thanks for any advice and suggestions - this is a great place!

Jason
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Unread 07-14-2008, 12:16 PM   #9
ceramictec
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Hey Jason,

I usually don't peel, play or look back once I put up the Kerdi.

do a new section with the new trowel, give it a few days for the mortar to cure.

I think you'll be alright if you had the right consistancy and pressed/imbedded the Kerdi in good with a flat trowel.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 01:08 PM   #10
prescottrecorder
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If you don't have any bubbles behind the Kerdi or hollow sounding spots where the Kerdi didn't adhere, you're in good shape.

Kerdi can be peeled from an edge for quite awhile after installation (full curing is almost a month) but is still strong enough to support a tile installation. It's sort of like the protective plastic sheets that cover the screens of new digital devices. You can easily peel them off from the edge, but it would be very difficult to pull them straight off.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #11
cx
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Welcome, Jason.

Please don't start new threads with each new question. Bookmark this one where I've combined all your others and use it for all your project questions so folks who wanna help can see the history of what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. We can change the title to something more generic for you at any time.

As for peeling the Kerdi off the walls, we generally axe folks, "how's come you wanna do that?" In a week or so it'll be pretty tough even to do what you've done without pulling the fleece off the membrane.

You're the only one can say if you pewt it on well, but if you did, it'll stay there. It's required to have only 50psi sheer bond when everything finally cures, but that's enough to park your truck on the edge of a 12-inch tile if you can get it up there.

And don't no tiles usually be seen tryin' to grap holt of no corners of the waterproofing membrane, least not down here where I usually work.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 07:42 PM   #12
jdjanka
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Thanks y'all, much appreciated! Sorry cx, didn't realize I was s'posed to keep all my threads in one, will do that from now on.

I picked up a 1/8x1/8 square notch trowel today, and I'll give it a shot, since it's at least mentioned in the e-book, unlike the 3/16x5/32 v-notch one. That, and I'll let it set longer

Thanks again!

Jason
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Unread 07-14-2008, 08:13 PM   #13
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I've installed all my Kerdi with a vee-notched trowel thus far and without any problems at all. I really do like that 1/8th square-notch, though, having tried one at the CTEF a few years back. Used it for installing Ditra there, though.

I would likely use one for alla Schluter products.......if I had one.

My plan is to try to whine as often as possible here on the forums and see won't somebody from Schluter start feelin' sorry for me and send me a couple. Hey! It could work.

I'd buy one 'cept I ain't seen on inna store yet.
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Unread 07-14-2008, 08:35 PM   #14
ceramictec
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Quote:
I'd buy one 'cept I ain't seen on inna store yet.
I'll virtually give you a set.....lol
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