Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-21-2020, 03:26 PM   #1
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
Shower Drain Project

Good Day,


Background:
My main goal is to place tile in the shower area as shown in the image below. The reason for this is because the pre-made plastic platform did not fit with my drain hole so the only option is to lay everything with tile which I do not mind doing.

The Problem: I need your help with finding the best resolution at solving the problem while installing the drain Kerdi. The Kerdi I have is shown in the images below. The problem is that the groove (marked with a white arrow) does not allow me to push the pan over the pipe so that it becomes perfectly flush with the floor. I was thinking of shaving off that groove so that I can fit it over and make it flush. Next, I need a way to watertight seal the outside of the pipe (once the pan is over) so that water is strictly directed down to the drain. Please make any suggestions for the best tools, gaskets, sealants, and the best way to take off that groove on the pan. My budget for the listed essentials is around $350.
Attached Images
     
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-21-2020, 03:38 PM   #2
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,374
What you'd normally do in that case is to cut down the riser pipe to the proper height. That could be done with a hack saw, cutoff saw, a special pipe tool you probably don't have, or an inside pipe cutter (looks sort of like a small circular saw on a shaft - they're cheap).

I haven't measured it, but above that stop in the drain, it is likely to flare out some, and there'd be a gap for crud to accumulate.

From my experience, the Kerdi drain is a little unusual in that it does not have much, if any taper to it like a normal hub, so dry fitting is entirely possible, unlike a regular fitting. You still want to hold it in place for maybe a couple of minutes to ensure the solvent has evaporated and locked things in place (as a side note, the PVC cement will eat a hole in foam, so keep it away from the curb and pan!). To ensure you get a good bond, I like to make sure I put a really good coat of the cement on both surfaces. The cement has both a solvent and dissolved plastic in it, so when the solvent evaporates, using a bit more helps to ensure it fills in. On a normal fitting, you cannot seat the pipe fully into it all the way to the bottom until you've added the cement, which then melts the plastic of the two parts. That also tends to push a layer of that dissolved plastic up against the stop, helping to ensure the joint is made well.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-21-2020, 04:13 PM   #3
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,956
Welcome, Mark.

Not sure just what you're referring to when you say "pan," but it appears it's the bonding flange drain you're working with and you would intend to use deck mud to complete the sloped shower floor for your shower receptor.

If that's correct, Jim's correct in telling you to simply cut the riser pipe to the correct length to allow you to set the drain with the bonding flange a minimum of 3/4" above your concrete floor. You really don't wanna be trying to alter that drain at all.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-21-2020, 07:04 PM   #4
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
My apologies for my nomenclature, only learning the trade.

My questions:
1. What would be the best watertight material to place on a concrete floor before I mud it? Should I just use the Kerdi waterproofing membrane?
2. What could be all of the ramifications of cutting the inner lip around the diameter on the Kerdi drain? The purpose of this is so that the distance between my concrete floor and the flange of the Kerdi drain is reduced.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-21-2020, 07:22 PM   #5
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,374
1. Kerdi is the waterproofing and it is installed AFTER you've built your sloped bed. If you've got a ground water issue, you shouldn't put a shower there! You should watch some of their videos to get a better idea of how to build a shower with Kerdi. Then come back with questions. Kerdi works just fine over either a preformed foam pan or over deckmud. When doing this type of shower, you need to use Kerdi up to at least the height of the showerhead on the wall, making the entire enclosure waterproof.
2. As I said earlier, it could compromise the actual joint. It's really easy to cut PVC. SOme careful measurements, and you should be good to go. If you want the level to be a bit lower, and can't get that with only cutting the riser, crack out a bit of cement around the pipe. Or, a grinder with a diamond cup wheel should take that small area down quickly. Note, the mud doesn't need to be all that thick when installed over a concrete slab, but it also doesn't look like it's particularly level. Not a big deal when using deck mud, though.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-22-2020, 07:59 PM   #6
jlbos83
Really Cool Weekend Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 773
Cutting the riser is a snap. But don't do it until you know how everything fits, so you get it right.
__________________
Jeff

It's a DRY heat!
jlbos83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2020, 07:06 AM   #7
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
I bought a Ditra membrane to install over concrete floor.
Another question I have is whether I should install brick over Ditra membrane or should I install it straight to the concrete floor and go around it with Ditra?
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2020, 10:28 AM   #8
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,956
If you're talking about your shower curb, Mark, you should build that directly on the concrete floor and work around it with your Ditra outside the shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2020, 07:51 AM   #9
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
Thank you all for your help.
Please confirm/redicule my plan:
1) Apply unmodified mortar over concrete and cover with Ditra membrane the entire bathroom area except for where brick shower curb is going.
--Should Ditra go inside and outside of the shower area? In other words, if shower curb is my boundary, should I be laying Ditra inside and outside this boundary?
2) Apply modified mortar straight to watertight cement board and install ceramic tile on walls.
Is it beneficial in installing Kerdi membrane over the walls even though I already have watertight cement board?
3) Figure out how to install the Kerdi drain so that the distance between floor and flange is minimized.
4) Apply unmodified mortar on top of the Ditra and install tile in only the shower area. Ensure the mud is sloped from the wall side.
5) Apply unmodified mortar to outside of shower area and install tile there too.
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2020, 11:14 AM   #10
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,311
Mark, Ditra is for outside your shower. Kerdi is for the shower floor and walls. You would build the curb and shower floor sloped mudbed on top of the concrete slab. The Kerdi goes over that sloped mudbed.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2020, 03:07 PM   #11
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
Davy,
Interesting. So, what is the purpose of having two different membranes? Wouldn't it more beneficial if we either go with Ditra or with the Kerdi membrane for both areas? Please explain.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Mark

Last edited by afonje78; 05-24-2020 at 03:17 PM.
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-24-2020, 06:17 PM   #12
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,956
Mark, I can't read the photo you posted, but the title does say it's for a barrier-free shower construction, which you are not building.

Schluter Kerdi is a direct bonded waterproofing membrane (ANSI A118.10) and is for use in showers and other wet areas.

Schluter Ditra is an "uncoupling membrane" (there is no tile industry standard) that is to be used on floors in lieu of a mortar bed or CBU or similar tile substrate. It can be made waterproof with the addition of Kerdi or Kerdi Band on the seams, but is not intended for use in showers.

In your installation, you'd want Kerdi in the shower, Ditra (or other suitable substrate) on the bathroom floor outside the shower, or you could simply install your bathroom floor tile directly on the concrete floor outside the shower if you prefer.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-25-2020, 01:49 PM   #13
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
Good Day,

cx, I took a better snip of that page on Ditra membrane.

The plan is to add one more layer of mortar and make the slope. I applied the Mapei unmodified thin-set mortar and it was very difficult to make the area smooth. Which mortar do you use and what best tools are used to make the area as smooth as possible? Shower curb with bricks was installed with this same Mapei thin-set mortar. Please make suggestions.
Attached Images
     
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-25-2020, 02:22 PM   #14
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,956
Mark, you're using the wrong stuff. Stop!

The "mortar" used to create the sloped floor in the shower is not thinset mortar. Thinset mortar is used for bonding tile to the substrate or bonding a tiling substrate to a backing material. The mortar used for creating a pre-slope or a sloped shower floor is commonly called deck mud or dry-pack. You can find recipes for the proper mortar in the Shower Construction thread in our Liberry.

You're gonna wanna stop and back up a bit. I recommend you remove whatever you currently have in the shower floor area. Cut your drain riser such that your drain bonding flange will sit about an inch above the subfloor surface. Mix some deck mud as described in the Liberry thread - five parts sand, one part Portland cement, minimal water - and place your sloped mud bed with a level perimeter and such that the farthest corner from the drain slopes a minimum of 1/4" per horizontal foot.

I think you're still misunderstanding the Schluter instructions a bit and Schluter is not helping much. Again, that section you're quoting is for a curbless shower design and in any case you need not put the Ditra in the shower floor area, only on the floor outside the shower if desired. You can extend your Kerdi over the curb in your design and out onto the bathroom floor a bit if you want, but it's not a requirement.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-25-2020, 03:12 PM   #15
afonje78
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 17
cx,

It would be difficult to remove the mortar at this point. Would it be ok if I apply deck mud over this layer once it dries? By the way, I had already cut off about an inch from the riser pipe, so the distance between the flange to the floor is about 1.8”.
Also, what would I apply to the cement board? Can I just apply modified thinset mortar and tile over that?
__________________
Mark
afonje78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shower drain sits low. Can I try raise drain by twisting it still? Or am I too late? 417linux Tile Forum/Advice Board 20 02-07-2019 09:32 AM
Mark's shower project with hot mopped pan and cast iron shower drain halfdome Tile Forum/Advice Board 20 05-03-2017 01:20 PM
Shower project, Drain question techie470 Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 04-02-2011 02:39 PM
Concrete floor-condo project-shower drain ssailer Professionals' Hangout 5 04-03-2009 12:58 PM
New Bath/Shower Project. Down the drain? chriscaldwell289 Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 10-25-2007 12:26 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC