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Unread 07-06-2005, 11:52 PM   #1
thenewguy
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Wanna do my first shower, am I crazy????

Hello everyone.
Very helpful group of folks here.

O.K., here is my deal. I live in socal and have done a few small tile projects around my home. Some floor, back splash, and a simple stone tub surround. I am comfortable setting tile, that's no problem.

I am trying to talk myself into doing a shower. I have some questions for you all before I begin.

I'm going to go with the standard socal hot mop since that's what everyone does down here and that's what seems normal to us. I gutted the bathroom to the studs. It is a tub sized 3x5 space for the shower. No tub, just shower.

Here come the questions.

Tell me if i'm on the right path here:

2x10 blocking all around, in between, studs to hold the hot mop. Curb: 3 2x4s. First one pressure treated, pinned into slab, nail next two on top of that. Does that sound correct for the curb and blocking?

Hang green board on walls down to 1 inch above 2x10 blocking all the way around.

Set drain. I ripped out during demo a fiberglass once piece pan. The builder left a 12x12 inch or so hole in the slab for the Ptrap. There is a plastic box that the was dropped in the hole which seems like it was used during the slab pour to create the hole (it's a tight fitting plastic box. Anyway, i'm going to cut off that 25 year old ptrap and glue a new abs trap on. Can I fill the hole with concrete w/out trying to rip out that plastic box? Now, the only question I have with the drain is does it just sit ontop of the slab when glued onto the drain? I don't have to secure it to the slab with concrete screws, do I?

Now that drain is in and hole has been filled in with new ptrap, call the hot mop guy to come over and slop the tar around. Should I tell the guy to make sure he slops tar up onto the bottom edges of the sheetrock to seal the bottom exposed edges of the sheetrock, or is that not really necessary?

Now, a problem. I have 1/2 inch sheetrock coming down to almost the top of the pan. I know I can't put any holes in the tar pan to hold lathe on, so do you just let the lathe hang down from the sheetrock over the pan to the bottom of the shower and just float it all out? I will be using tar paper, unless you all suggest otherwise over all the sheetrock, lathe, and then float out the walls.

O.K., now I think I have all walls floated at this point. Would you decide upon the height of the final float of the shower pan, and set the wall tile and then float the pan and curb? Or, float the pan and curb at this point before starting to set tile on the walls?

1/4" slope per foot for the final pan float, right?

Leave pan float "tile thickness" below top of the drain so it ends up flush with tile.

Oh, use redgard on sheetrock niche to waterproof before tar paper goes on? Or, just use the tar paper and call it good enough?

Anyway, am I on the right track here? I have been reading in the liberry and reading posts to help figure this out. I think I have it. Something you think a novice like myself can tackle? I figure if I screw it up, I can always rip it out and hire it out. It sounds like a fun project which is mainly why I want to do it myself.

Thanks!
-Bill in socal-
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Unread 07-07-2005, 08:20 AM   #2
cx
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Welcome, Bill. Yep, you're crazy as hell. You'll fit right in hereabouts and make you a fine shower.

1. If you're doing the shower yourownself, forget the California hot-mop and install a proper PVC or CPE pan liner. You can do that yourownself and it's superior to the hot-mop by a wide margin. You'll need to pop that plastic "box out" box outa there and fill the hole with Quickrete or some such after your drain is installed. Then construct the pre-slope before installing the pan liner. The Liberry 'splains alla that.

2. If you're fixin' to mud the shower walls (best of all possible construction methods) and you've never done one, I'd suggest you go to the top of the page to our store and order a copy of John Bridge's book, Tile Your World. He's got a section in there on that kinda stuff on accounta he was around when mud was invented. Good book.

3. Yes, you let the lath hang down below the sheetrock wall. Lotta guys will pewt a scratch coat on just that part and block it against the wall until it cures, then mud over it when they mud the walls. Makes life a little easier.

4. Your final floor slope should follow your pre-slope of at least a quarter-inch per foot. I think you've got a handle on the rest of it.

Oh, if your current drain is not in the center of the shower, move it there before you go any further.

Waterproofing the niches never hurts.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-07-2005, 08:30 AM   #3
Scooter
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Nope, You Are Not on the Right Track, Here

3x5 Slab on Grade Shower:

Sheetrock: This is a no-no. Do not use any gypsun based product on the walls, with or without Red Guard. Use Hardibacker, Wonderboard, Durock, or a similar setting bed. Greenboard will suck up that moisture and swell and turn into a mold magnet. This is really, really important.

I would not want to use hot mop with a standard ABS shower drain. I know it is done, but depending on how good you are at supervising and how good the hot mop idiots are, you may clog the weepholes. The problem is a bit more technical than I have time to go into this morning, and I have to leave, but the weep holes in the ABS drain are formed by two half circles on the top and bottom parts, forming a hole. It is impossible, dificult, challegning, hard etc to hot mop that drain flange without getting tar all over those holes. At best, you'll have to go back over them with an awl or round file to get all the tar out and enlarge the holes. I prefer a cast iron drain which has the weep holes on the top of the drain.

Most of your questions can be answered by a trip to the Library (see the link above) and you need to read all the stuff there, and get back to us with specific question.

Here is the Cast Iron Drain:
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Unread 07-07-2005, 08:41 AM   #4
cx
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He'd gonna mud over the walls, Scooter, he can start with sheetrock and felt, eh?

One thing I missed up there, Bill: Don't use PT wood anywhere in that curb unless it's kiln-dried after treatment (KDAT). Should never see any water at all and the regular PT wood can do you more harm than good there.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-07-2005, 09:50 AM   #5
thenewguy
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Thanks for the replies.

Everyone I talk to down here in socal says hot mop, only way to go. But, everything I've read and what you guys say is go the CPE liner route. So, I am going to go that route.

Scooter, since i'm not doing hot mop and going the liner route, is a pvc drain o.k., or should I still use a cast iron drain? Also, do I set the drain flush on slab or just above slab grade and preslop up to it to make it flush? I think I set it flat on slab....

Also, for everyone, is it just as acceptable to use durock for the walls, or float them with sheetrock, tar paper, lath, wall mud? I don't mind floating the walls, but if I can get away with durock, it sounds easier for me.

O.K., almost there. I'm going to go get my drain after scooter chimes in, set it, fill the hole, take pictures and post back for you guys to review my next steps. Reading the liberry now.

Does anyone know where I can get the john bridge book really quickly! Like order it today and get it within about 4 days?

Thanks!
I don't feel so crazy any longer
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Unread 07-07-2005, 10:01 AM   #6
MarcusEngley
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Hi Bill,

Glad the guys convinced you to go with the liner instead of hot mop -- you'll be much happier and have a better shower in the end.

You can order the book from here, but if you want it real fast you could probably get next day or 2 day shipping from Amazon.com. Tile Your World -- great book, you won't regret the cash.

Keep reading threads and asking questions! Best to get a real solid idea before you start and it sounds like you're on the right track now.

Good luck!
Marcus
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Unread 07-07-2005, 12:09 PM   #7
dmmoss
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YEE OLE HOT MOP should be forgotton. YEE simi ole PVC mud pan or YEE new schluter shower system will be a much better choice for a long lasting shower. sometimes the old way is best, sometimes the old way is old. I would REALLY look at the schluter system plus, it will be easier for a DIY project.
GOOD LUCK!!
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Unread 07-07-2005, 02:43 PM   #8
thenewguy
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Yup, going to let the hot mop go. Man, you should hear everyone I talk to down here - they are all in LOVE with the hot mop.

You called it, just ordered John's book from amazon with 2 day shipping. Can't wait for the book.

Will be getting back to you all after phase one which will be in a copule of days.

thanks!




Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusEngley
Hi Bill,

Glad the guys convinced you to go with the liner instead of hot mop -- you'll be much happier and have a better shower in the end.

You can order the book from here, but if you want it real fast you could probably get next day or 2 day shipping from Amazon.com. Tile Your World -- great book, you won't regret the cash.

Keep reading threads and asking questions! Best to get a real solid idea before you start and it sounds like you're on the right track now.

Good luck!
Marcus
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Unread 07-07-2005, 04:51 PM   #9
cx
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PVC or ABS (whatever your existing plumbing is) clamping drain will be fine with the membrane pan liner, Bill.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-07-2005, 06:05 PM   #10
Scooter
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Yep, PVC or ABS drain is fine with a PVC or CPE Liner.

I use hot mop all the time--there is nothing inherently wrong with it--you just have to pick your sub carefully and use the right products. I just don't think it is a DIY product. From a profit standpoint, the hot mop works for me.

I also like membrane's too.

Are you going to mud the walls? Wow. I don't have the skill for that. Good luck.
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Unread 07-08-2005, 05:03 PM   #11
thenewguy
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Quote:
Are you going to mud the walls? Wow. I don't have the skill for that. Good luck.
Yeah, scooter, i'm going to try to mud the walls. I have thrown plenty of stucco around, so I think I can handle it. If I can't, i'll just rip down the walls and throw durock up there.

John's book should be on my doorstep right now. Hopefully, after reading it, i'll still be fired up to mud the walls.

thanks.
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Unread 07-10-2005, 10:44 AM   #12
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Thanks for the book purchase, Bill. It covers mud showers pretty well. Hot mop is a California thing. I know it's a big state, but most of the rest of the country goes with PVC or CPE.

Also, get into our Liberry and read the articles there on shower floors. They pertain to both mud and cbu showers.

Welcome aboard.
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