Global Warming

[ddmoit]

If you have over an hour to kill, and a decent Internet connection, this is worth a view...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+great+swindle


EDIT: Well shoot, the link is broken now. Well, just do a Google search on "the great global warming swindle" and you'll get to it.

EDIT: YouTube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

[Scooter]

I don't think there is any debate about Global Warming-it exists, it is happening fast, it is accelerating, and it is bad. There is absolutely, positively no debate that the ice in both poles is shrinking, Glaciers are retreating, and the climate is on average, about 2° warmer over the past 10 years. This is fact.

The debate is what is causing the warming. On that subject there are many theories. The plurality appears to be that it is human activity, but again there is another side to this theory that it is part of natural cycles. This debate is not fact--it is opinion. And you can choose to believe whom you want.

I question whether we (the USA) acted today whether it would be enough. China has refused to do anything, and has now taken the lead as to greenhouse gases over the USA this year. So the world can now get off our back, and can blame China. Ultimately trying to get the world to do something in unison is like trying to herd cats.

[muley]

Well, can't believe I'm saying this but agree with Scooter. I think the warming debate in a way is a misnomer, the better way to put it is that the earth is currently warming. The earth has on routine warmed and cooled long before mans arrival, and will continue to do so if he is not here. Additionally, there are core samples that have seen global warming w/o increased CO2, suggesting that perhaps, increased CO2 atmospheric levels are caused by global warming, and not the cause of global warming. At the end of the day, some chicken littles are making some very bold claims that just simply are not backed by science, and the debate is alive and well with many leading scientist skeptical of the human causation theory. IMHO, we simply do not have enough accurate long historical data to conclude whether this is just a sort spike upward, or a longer term trend. One thing is for sure, the earth is dynamic, and nobody is really sure what the "overall" average teperature is. It's like measuring a half a inch on a football field and proclaiming that inch the average hieght of the grass.

[ddmoit]

Maybe global warming is caused by Dan, Scooter, and Muley all agreeing on something.

Sure we're warming. But I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary, and I don't think human activity is a significant cause. And, we've been warmer before while humans have been around.

I think the clip does a pretty good job of explaining the motivations behind the groups that are behind the human caused theories.

It also makes another important point. Many people are concerned about doing nothing - even those that aren't convinced of human causes. But few people are willing to consider the potentially horrible consequences of doing something. This show dwells on that topic towards the end of the program.

[Scooter]

If you two can form an opinion based on scientific theories, then you guys are smarter than me. I have to trust that our government will listen to the science, reach a conclusion, and make the right choice.

I just hope they don't listen to political hacks with an agenda, whether it is from the right wing nazi Rush Limbaughs or somebody from the left.

There really is a cause--and one has to look at science to explain this to our collective leadership. But I am powerless to do anything.

[madmax]

Scooter
Remodeler -- Southern Cal.




Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,053 If you two can form an opinion based on scientific theories, then you guys are smarter than me. I have to trust that our government will listen to the science, reach a conclusion, and make the right choice.

I just hope they don't listen to political with an agenda, whether it is from the right wing Rush Limbaughs or somebody from the left.

There really is a cause--and one has to look at science to explain this to our collective leadership. But I am powerless to do anything.
__________________
Scooter
"Sir, I May Be Drunk, But You're Crazy, and I'll Be Sober Tomorrow"
WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. Yes I am smarter.

2. The political hack with the agenda is Al Gore.

3. Global warming is hardly happening fast. The Earth has been warming for 20,000 years. The sea levels increase about the thickness of a nickel each year which isn't that much considering the fact that the sea level has gone up 400 ft in the last 20,000 years. In case you are counting, that is 400 feet before George Bush took office.

4. The reason the Earth is warming is because the orbit is not perfectly circular. When the Earth gets closer to the sun it gets warmer.

Max,

I agree with you about Al Gore, but are you sure about #4?

[ddmoit]

I don't know about #4 either. It sure wasn't featured in the clip I linked.

[jgleason]

Not sure about #4 either but the sun's energy output is not constant. Some would argue that the higher solar activity of the last 60 years has had something to do with the earth's climate of late.

No denying man has an impact, how significant is the question. There is evidence that the earth has been warmer in the past (yes while man has inhabited the planet). Who is to say that the current climate is the best for us? Maybe a 1 or 2 degree rise in temperature would actually be better. Personally, I wouldn't mind it being a bit warmer.

[ddmoit]

Joe, they address the solar effect in the clip. It's far more plausible than CO2.

It absolutely has been warmer than it is now during the time of human civilization. All indications are that things were better for humans when it was warmer.

[HS345]

I just hope they don't listen to political hacks with an agenda, whether it is from the right wing nazi Rush Limbaughs or somebody from the left

.

Rush is a nazi? Oh man, now ya tell me.

[madmax]

Rob Zschoche
Bathroom Remodeler, Wash. D.C. Area, Charter Member




Join Date: May 2001
Location: Loudoun County VA
Posts: 6,232 Max,

I agree with you about Al Gore, but are you sure about #4?

I can't prove #4 because it is still a theory, but it makes sense to me. It is called Milankovitch Theory(1920) and it was named after Milutin Milankovitch, a Serbian scientist/astronomer.

It is fairly simple. Milankovitch beleived the Earth's orbit is not perfect. When the Earth moves closer to the sun it will get warmer and when the Earth is farthest from the sun it will get colder.

[ddmoit]

I'm not ready to put much stock in that theory, Madmax.

First of all, our orbit is not round, but elliptical. During the year, our distance from the Sun changes by nearly a million miles. In fact, when it is Winter in the Northern Hemisphere, we're actually closer to the Sun than in the Summer.

[Scooter]

The average temperatures have not consistently risen since the beginning of time. So Max, that statement is false.

There was a time in our history called "The Ice Age", actually 2-3 of them, the last of which formed most of the lakes in Minnesota.

There was a mini-ice age in the Dark Ages in about 700 AD which lasted about 4 generations.

Now, I can't remember the ice age, because I'm not old enough, but ask John, I think might remember it.

As far as I know, the orbits of the planets have remained constant. They are eliptical, but that is an annual thing, not an ever increasing shrinking of the planet's orbit.

Indeed, the planet ought to be cooling off, not heating up. That is the case with other planets.

I think you've been listening to that fat, drug addict, gass bag on radio, Rush Limbaugh too much.

[ddmoit]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Indeed, the planet ought to be cooling off, not heating up. That is the case with other planets.

So long as we have an atmosphere, I don't think that rule applies to us.