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Unread 04-23-2006, 05:46 AM   #16
tilemanct
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Why the big push on mold and mold abatement? The lawyers need another pig to suckle to. The asbestos litigation is almost over and they sucked that pig dry, now they need another food source. Hey wait a minute… doesn’t mold need a food source too.
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Unread 04-23-2006, 07:37 AM   #17
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I stated above that medical people can find no evidence that average people are harmed by mold spores. I think there are reactions that vary in severity as I stated, but those reations are temporary and not harmful in the long term.

I've heard all the stories of bleeding caused by mold spores, some worse than others, but I've never seen any scientific evidence of the truth of it. I think those types of stories are mistaken, coincidental occurances caused by other things; or they are out and out hype or even deception.

I do believe that it is possible that certain people might become uncomfortable when exposed to very high concentrations of mold spores over an extended period of time. But in no way do I believe that justifies turning people out of their homes for months on end while idiots come in wearing strange looking clothing bent on tearing the house to pieces, finally walking off leaving the mess behind them and pronouncing the place "abated."

Once again, show me the science. Let me hear the testimony of doctors and medical researchers.

It has been shown by medical science that long-term exposure to asbestos and to SILICA causes severe lung problems. My older brother Bob died from diagnosed "asbestosis" after years of inhaling asbestos and the silica that is contained in grouts and mortars. Bob was a mud man who started in the trade right after WWII. That was way before people understood how dangerous those products can be.

But there is absolutely no danger to a weekend warrior scraping up old VA tile or cutback adhesive. You've got to get the fibers airborne in the first place, and you've got to get a lot of them airborne over an extended period of time.

Back to the mold.
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Unread 04-23-2006, 09:21 AM   #18
Albert
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i agree wif john that this mold thing is overblown. if it wuz a big problum i never wooda gotten together wiff edna. she is a moldy wooman.

some peeple is sensitive to it but mold is everywhere around us, in our houses, and in the air. it juss needs a little water and warmth to sprout and suddenly peeple git histerical about the mold monster. the mold spores wuz already there tobeginwiff and nobody complained about it until they sprouted.

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Unread 04-23-2006, 05:18 PM   #19
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This is from JLC March '06: "the Institute of Medecine of the National Academies released a study of the known science on mold in May 2004, and found no clear link between mold and health effects. The committee also concluded that while mold may induce asthmatic symptoms in asthmatics who are sensitive to it, the evidence wasn't strong enough to demonstrate a casual relationship."
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Unread 04-24-2006, 07:08 AM   #20
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Also..
Bleach and peroxide to not kill mold spores, they just rid of the surface bloom.

Mold isn't happy in a dry place cool environment. So make sure you waterproof correctly.

Use an acid like what we have described in the liberry.

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4991

Best wishes, and of course talk to your doctor about your health.

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Unread 04-24-2006, 07:10 AM   #21
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Albert,

Do you loofa Edna before..... fuhgetaboutit. :
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Unread 04-24-2006, 12:59 PM   #22
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John --

Sorry to hear about what happened to your brother. You are correct about asbestosis being exposure related, but smoking increases the danger from asbestos by several times.

But there is also a practically incurable type of cancer of the outer covering of the lungs called mesothelioma that is just about 100% asbestos related. And since cancer starts as a single mutation in a single cell, it can be caused, in theory, by a single asbestos fiber. Fortunately mesothelioma is pretty rare.

So, while I agree with you that a homeowner can safely remove a vinyl-asbestos tile floor or a layer of asbestos-containing cutback as long a they take reasonable precautions, a very unlucky individual could die from a single asbestos exposure.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 03:09 PM   #23
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Jeff, that's true about the single asbestos exposure, but I also know of a few instances where a moderate injury has triggered cancer in a couple of unlucky individuals. You can't help bad luck!.

Scaremongering sure is a good way to generate business if you can convince people to buy into it

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Unread 04-24-2006, 03:56 PM   #24
Richard Tunison
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My very unscientific story on mold. First, as David suggests do a google on myco and good science/exeprience/history backs up that the stuff is just awful.

My parents roof was blown off during hurricane Wilma last year. (they did evacuate to my Son's house inland and are fine) We could not get to the house for 5 days because of the downed.... everything.. very ugly. When we finally opened the front door the gasses in the house made us all just gasp for air and run outside where we choked, hacked, eyes and nose running...... it was awful!!
Mold had grown up the old plaster walls to about 3ft. We (my son and his buddy) took turns running in holding our breath to open a window and then running back outside.

The house, as per the insurance co. was gutted down to block and rafters.

And yes,,,,,, In my 27yrs. in the trade I've dug out ALOT of nasty stuff seemingly without problems.

Oh well,,,, my two cents
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Unread 04-24-2006, 03:57 PM   #25
John Bridge
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"a very unlucky individual could die from a single asbestos exposure."

A very unlucky individual could also be run over by a freight train.



Brother Bob didn't smoke much. He puffed on about a half pack per day of Parliaments for several years and then quite altogether in his fifties. Smoking was not considered an issue in his case. I don't know the exact technical name for his disease, but basically, the lining of his lungs was cut to ribbons, and since the material was still present and contained in the lungs, the wounds kept recurring. Scar tissue built up and then re-built. When he was diagnosed in his late sixties, the doctors gave him 18 months to live. About every couple years they would extend his life expectancy. He finally gave out about 14 years after diagnosis. He was just a couple months shy of 80.

But for the last several years his life was miserable. He had to have oxygen constantly, and in increasing amounts. Oxygen itself destroys lung tissue. Right before he died he had less than 20% lung capacity. There was no cancer.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 04:31 PM   #26
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John, Sure sounds like your brother had silicosis-- the bane of hard rock miners and stonecutters who work with sandstone and granite without "proper" protection. All those different cement mixes are full of silicates, and so is the clay the tiles are cooked from. Not nice stuff to breath.

As for the mold, there are probably a zillion beneficial mold species for every real toxic species so lets not get too carried away with a national movement to ban them

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Unread 04-24-2006, 04:31 PM   #27
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That sure sounds like asbestosis, which is a medical diagnosis. It's one of the pnemoconioses (singular: pneumoconiosis), which are all diseases caused by inhaled particles. There are bizarre names for diseases caused by cotton dust (byssinosis), sugar cane dust (bagasosis) and many others, along with silicosis and anthracosilicosis (coal dust). They're all exposure-related.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 04:42 PM   #28
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A person CAN recover from being weakened. Not from asbestos fibers.

Looks like John and Richard almost simulposted.

John, the damage asbestos and silica cause is irreversible damage. That has been studied and proven by scientists, I think. Asbestos has a causal relationship with death and dying.

The other stuff I was talking about above is reversible damage. Mold is just a mere stressor, like eating another living organism's excrement would be for each and every one of us. Nobody dies from mold toxins in a direct way known as causality (cause --> effect). Mold is bad stuff that can weaken you. More after long exposure than after a short exposure. The toxins are the thing, not the spores. If it really weakens you, you have been brought down a notch or two or perhaps way more, and you are a ready victim for anything else that can get a hold onto your body.

A good analogy may be with tobacco. Nobody dies from tobacco. It's always something else, that may or may not be in a causal relationship. Insurance companies will tell you that a smoker is at a higher risk of dying, from pretty much all the other possible ways to die (other than accident). (No jokes, please). It took a real long time to establish some degree of causality or even a positive correlation with disease / death / dying, and tobacco ingestion. Even insurance companies resisted raising rates for smokers for a long time. Although many people will say they saw the correlation long before.

Another good comparison would be to ask you to take a full vacuum cleaner bag and put it inside your pillow, inside your pillowcase, and sleep a full night with it there close to your nose, eyes and face. How many people can say that a vacuum cleaner bag full of the last month's carpet and floor dust is OK to have around ? It contains dust mites, that eat dust and release enzymes that do a number on your sensitive parts, like lungs, eyes, nose. This is not mold, but it is a similar degree of stress.

Hope this helps.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 06:55 PM   #29
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Thanks David. I realize we got off on a tangent. That hardly ever happens around here.
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Unread 04-24-2006, 07:55 PM   #30
dad4taylor
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Fear

Hey forget about mold... these things are coming after you too!

asbestos, secondhand smoke, helmetless motorcycle accidents, gays, terrorists, hormones in milk,cholesterol, sodium, smog, airbags, saccharin, bird flu, mad cow disease, killer bees, tsunamis, Y2K, AIDS....

Jeez, life in and of itself is dangerous and as much as our government and the insurance companies would like us to wear hermetically sealed, bullet proof, fire proof bubble wrap outfits all day long I say screw that.

It still pisses me off that my kids don't know what the wind in their hair feels like because the government makes them wear helmets while riding their bikes. For god sakes I grew up in the Evil Knievil era and broke just about every bone in my body before the age of 12 and made it. And by the way my father beat my ass out on the front lawn every time and drove me to the hospital in a Chevy pickup with a big ass metal dashboard, a beer in his lap ( along with my little brother who was steering) a cigarette in his mouth at 75 MPH with no seat belt in sight and half the neighborhood kids in the back! Gosh, how ever did we survive?
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