Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 03-24-2014, 11:21 PM   #1
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Hardie > Kerdi > Porcelain Tile - Thinset?

In my shower I have HardieBacker up on the walls. I am putting up the Kerdi membrane to waterproof it. And I have porcelain tile going on top of the Kerdi. My question is, what thinset should I use #1: between the hardiebacker and the Kerdi? And #2: between the Kerdi and the porcelain tile?

From what I gather modified thinset mortar is recommended on hardiebacker. However, unmodified thinset is recommended under Kerdi. So which one should be used? (And I understand that unmodified doesn't need air to dry, and modified does).

Also, from what I gather modified thinset mortar is recommended for installing porcelain tile. However, unmodified is recommended over Kerdi. So again, which should be used here? (And yes I know good quality thinset should be used Laticrete, SpectraSet, TEC, etc).

I'm just confused since I'm sandwiching two products which each recommend a different thinset. Hardie to Kerdi and then again with Kerdi to porcelain.
__________________
Craig
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 03-24-2014, 11:34 PM   #2
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,478
Use a premium unmodified thinset on both the Hardie and to set the tile...

The Hardie is VERY thirsty, and to avoid having issues with it pulling all of the moisture out of the thinset before you can embed the Kerdi to it, you MUST wipe the Hardieboard down...more than once doesn't hurt. You don't want it dripping, but you do want it wet before you spread the thinset. A mistake newbies make with Kerdi is they try to use too big of a sheet until they get the hang of it.

The bond to a porcelain tile with an good unmodified is in the order of 250-300psi, which means to tear a 12x12 tile off the wall is 10's of tons, once it is set...the tile won't come off. The thinset itself doesn't stick to Kerdi, but if it is mixed properly, when you embed the membrane, it encapsulates the fleece, and once cured, it is locked fully in place. But, don't rush it...thinset doesn't attain its stated full strength for 28-days...and, if you try to peel it back, you will be able to for a few days. Pulling a tile off would be very tough, since you'd be trying to pull the whole sheet off at once, not a very thin line if you're peeling it back.

The other thing you should do is to peel a section back immediately after you put it up to verify proper coverage. If you mixed the thinset properly, and the Hardie wasn't too dry, or you didn't get it up fast enough, you'll see the back of the Kerdi fully covered with thinset as well as the wall. If you got that, it will go back on the wall really easily. Then, you know you have the technique and can consider larger sheets, but I'd still not try to wrap a full sheet around the shower!

If you can get it, DitraSet mortar is really nice, but there are others around that work well. Do NOT use an entry level (i.e., cheap, mostly sand) dryset mortar. A good one will cost you in the order of $15-25, depending on where you buy it, and what kind of discount you can get, if any.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2014, 11:53 PM   #3
pfmez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Rock Springs, Wy
Posts: 93
Welcome Craig.

What Jim said. If you're worried about using unmodified thinset on porcelain, page 36 of the Schluter shower system handbook has a pretty good write up about it. I recently put up Kerdi for the first time using Ditraset mortar, and not that I'm experienced with thinsets, its seems really awesome to me, I paid about $25 a bag with tax.

A couple things I learned (which I wish would have been on a practice piece!), definitely work in small pieces, I did entire walls in one piece, and man I wish I had split it in two! While you should be in a hurry from the first thinset on the wall to the time you place the kerdi, definitely spend some time embedding it, this is where I went wayyy too fast, once the kerdi is there you have plenty of time to embed it, make sure all the ridges are down and its nice and flat, especially at corners and seams where you will have kerdi band adding to the build up.

I would highly recommend doing a small practice piece first, to get the feel for it and how the thinset mix will work, mine was too stiff in retrospect. A helper would have also been nice!
__________________
Fred
pfmez is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2014, 11:53 PM   #4
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Awesome, thanks for the prompt responses.
__________________
Craig
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2014, 10:30 AM   #5
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,478
Ditraset instructions have a range of water to use...to embed Kerdi, go towards the high end. When setting tile on Ditra, depends on the situation, lower end for big, heavy tile, probably middle for normal sized tile. It should be creamy, not peanut butter, closer to mayonnaise and when you spread it out, it still needs to be able to hold the notch without flowing level. If you stick your finger in, it should cover your finger, but not drip off. If you just get a depression in the pot, it's way too thick, or has started to set.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 07:53 PM   #6
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
How to tile/trim outside corner transition

I have been adding a second bathroom area in my house and have recently run into a situation I can't seem to think of the answer by myself. If I could get some advice it would be appreciated. I have a walk in curbed shower entry and a partition wall (which the water lines run through). The curb and inside of the entry will be tiled...however I intend for the outside of the partition wall to be finished and painted drywall. The issue is that the entryway and curb meet along with the non tiled partition wall and I am unsure how to protect the edges of the tile and transition everything properly at the edges and corners. It is much easier to show than it is to explain so I will attach a photo. I thought about using some type of J-channel but then where the wall meets the curb that wouldn't work right. Please take a look. (Just note, I still have a piece of cement board to put over the wood stud on the end of the partition wall, and none of the drywall is in place yet either, i simply put a scrap piece up to give an idea. Also, the Kerdi membrane will be used over the cement board and curb.)

How do I tile over the curb and inside the entryway, yet still have a nice seamless edge along the painted drywall all the way to the curb and even past the curb to the floor? I have my nice porcelain tile purchased but all the nifty edging and trim pieces are not available in my tile. They do have one type of bull-nose but I don't like it. Ideas? Links? Suggestions?
Attached Images
  
__________________
Craig

Last edited by cx; 11-23-2014 at 08:00 PM. Reason: No Edit
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 08:09 PM   #7
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,573
Welcome back, Craig. This the same shower you started a thread for back in March?

What treatment, if any, do you plan for the shower opening?

We can't see anything about the size or shape of your shower or the location of the shower head[s], but those bottom outside corners can be one of the first locations of failure in that kind of shower. Waterproofing and tiling around to the outside is a good idea, but not mandatory.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 11:20 PM   #8
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Shower entry will be left open. The entire bathroom floor will be tiled. Right now I have heated floor element embedded in the SLC outside the shower. The shower itself is 4 ft by 4 ft. There will be only one shower head and it is spraying AWAY from the entryway towards the back wall. But may also end up being a large rainfall shower head in the center of the shower.

Would a good option be to tile the outside of the curb and continue that tile as a bottom border all the way around the bathroom? Then the only area I need to worry about is the Outside corner transition of the entryway where it is tiled over cement board on the inside and painted drywall outside. Suggestions how to treat this corner?


Also that styrofoam "curb" is just for reference...it was packaging leftover from something. That's where the curb will be though.
__________________
Craig
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 12:15 AM   #9
cpad007
hack of some trades
 
cpad007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,245
I'd tile around that outside corner if you think it would be aesthetically pleasing to you and Mrs. Craig.

CX is right, each corner/leg on my shower was trashed upon removal so it would be prudent to waterproof that area in some fashion.

Schluter has some nice profile edges (Quadec or Rondec...I'm using the Quadec) to clean up outside corners and terminate tiles in the middle of a wall.

I'll post some pics of them in my thread shortly.
__________________
Chris

DIYer-us Extrem-us Non-Pro-us

Chris' Orange Tile Project
cpad007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 10:10 AM   #10
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Tiling around that vertical outside corner actually would not look good at all :-/ But my father suggested that as well. I guess as a last resort I could do that.
__________________
Craig
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 11:13 AM   #11
cpad007
hack of some trades
 
cpad007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,245
It looks like you have kind of a "column" going on there...might work. Would you mind taking a pic a few steps back? Give us a full view of the shower entry if ya don't mind.
__________________
Chris

DIYer-us Extrem-us Non-Pro-us

Chris' Orange Tile Project
cpad007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 11:25 AM   #12
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,573
Craig, I would recommend you waterproof and tile the floor outside that shower for at least a little ways. You will have some splash-out and best to protect it now while it's easy.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 12:26 PM   #13
cruisin_n_style
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
I will waterproof a little ways out from the curb. Here is another photo, sorry it's sorta blurry. As I said, the drywall is not up on the outside of the wall yet, I just put a scrap piece there for reference. Also the styrofoam where the curb will be is a scrap piece for reference.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Craig
cruisin_n_style is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 06:10 PM   #14
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,632
I've done this with J-channel before, gotta do a little head scratching to get it all aligned and then just mud over the J channel when finishing drywall. I'd beef up that wall framing some.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Peter

Silicone (not silicon) Sealant Ranger
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
inside corner trim - after tiling ? onycomosis Tile Forum/Advice Board 22 05-12-2009 02:40 PM
Tile to Sheetrock Transition in Outside Corner oreyes Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 09-24-2008 04:32 AM
Corner Trim Ideas pb1718 Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 07-16-2008 09:00 AM
Corner Trim Angle Bucket Head Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 02-28-2005 10:05 PM
Outside corner Paint/Tile transition walktall Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 11-27-2004 08:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC