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Unread 01-07-2022, 02:41 AM   #1
cliff2022
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Bathroom remodel - Starting off right using Goboard?

I’m starting my second bathroom remodel in 15 years. This time around I’m using goboard and was hoping to get some advice or confirmation that I’m on the right track.

For the tub / shower area, I’m using goboard and purple/drywall for the rest of the walls. Having never used goboard before, I’ve been doing some reading online and watching a few videos.

1. To secure the goboard I’ll be using 1 1/4 rock-on backer screws with the back wall being the exception. The back wall is block and only has 1 x 2 strips to secure the board. The 1 1/4 screws go slightly pass the 1x2 strips, so for the back wall, I’ll be using 1’ x 1’ galvanized staples (that was listed as an approved alternative fastener).

2. For the wall seams and screw / staple holes, I’ll be using OSI Quad Max Sealant, I’ll then be going over the sealant with 2 to 3 coats of aqua defense.

3. For my corner joints, I’m less sure if I’m on the right track. For my wall corner joints I’m planning to use the OSI sealant to caulk the 1/8 gap. Then I will put a coat of aqua defense over the joint and embed fibafuse. I’ll follow that up with 2 more coats of aqua defense. Goboard doesn’t require that but I read about a few installers using that method and to me seems like it would make for a stronger joint with less movement.

4. For my ceiling I have 1 sheet of goboard over the tub and the rest purple drywall. So, for my ceiling joints I’m going to use fibafuse and thinset then coat with aqua defense. My thinking on using the fibafuse and thinset for the ceiling joint, is it would make for a smoother transition from goboard to drywall on the ceiling. If I was to use the OSI sealant on the ceiling, I kept questioning where I should stop the sealant and start using mud, so I decided the easier thing to do would be to just tape and thinset the joint and transition to using mud after the goboard.

5. I’m also uncertain about the transition from the goboard to drywall on the walls. My tub is 32” and the goboard is 3x5. I’m planning on using 3” bullnose tile on the outside of tub on up the wall. That would put the bull nose tile ending almost exactly at the end of the goboard, which I don’t think would be the most ideal.

So, I was thinking to cut the goboard to 33 1/2. Use fibafuse and thinset on the seam. Then coat the seam with aqua defense. By doing this the seam will be behind the tile.

My concern is the goboard will only be 1 1/2 inches pass the tub. With using a shower curtain and having grand children playing in the tub, would it be better to bring the goboard further out and just finishing the seam like I would with drywall? Or, would hiding the transition seam behind the tile and extending the aquadefense out a bit be adequate?

This is where I’m currently at with the project. Any advice or even confirmation that I’m seeing things correctly would be greatly appreciated.
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Unread 01-07-2022, 10:33 AM   #2
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Hi Cliff, welcome,

1) I've never used GB, and even if they say the 1X1 staples are acceptable I'd still be hesitant as the staples will be only 1/2" into the furring strips. I'd be inclined to enquire what kind of construction adhesive could be used between the GB and furring strips. As well, I'd want to determine just how securely those furring strips are attached to the blocks.

2) Is the OSI sealant approved be the manufacturer of GB? I thought I read somewhere they have their own sealant. Will Aqua Defense adhere to the cured OSI?

3) IMO, the sealant AND AD with fibafuse is over kill, and I still have the question about the OSI and AD bond. Since AD is flexible I don't think embedding the fibafuse in it will create a joint with less movement.

4) Why the GB over the tub? Wait, I get the "why" but, IMO, you're attempting to solve a problem that doesn't really exist. Unless you anticipate that the kids will be slinging that much water onto the ceiling, over and over, plain old drywall, well primed and painted, will be just fine. As mentioned, I've never used GB so I don't know if it finishes just like drywall with paint, but I do know that whatever seams you do with the AD will not finish like a seam done with drywall compound. Assuming you have at least the standard 8' ceilings I would use plain white drywall on the entire ceiling, and finish all the wall to ceiling joints, including the GB, with regular drywall mesh tape and compound. Also IMO, you don't need the purple drywall, unless building code in your location requires it.

The 40+ year old bathroom I recently gutted had zero water damage to the ceiling drywall.

5) GB to (dry) wall transition, especially the tub "leg" (where the GB extends down the wall along the apron of the tub) is the area I'd focus a lot of effort on. For that I'd want to cut and fit the GB as close to the tub's top radius and down apron as possible, leaving between 1/16th and 1/8th gap which would then be filled with a proper sealant. The GB should extend away from the apron 2 inches at a minimum, with the GB to DW joint being finished with alkali resistant mesh tape and thinset mortar, then sealed with the AD. Tile will then, of course extend far enough onto the DW to cover the AD.

You didn't mention how you are planning to handle the GB to tub lip situation. And, given your concerns with water, you might give some thought about where the tub apron meets the floor.
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Unread 01-07-2022, 12:52 PM   #3
cliff2022
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Thanks Dan for replying and giving me a few things to think about.

1. The furring strips do seem secure. That being said I am worried that if I use 1 1/4 screws I might make them less secure if I push them from the block. That leaves the 1 “ by 1” staples the only approved fastener on the list that’s less than 1 1/4”. I’ve email them about applying an adhesive to the back and waiting for a reply. Something like gorilla adhesive or Liquid nails fuze it?

2. GB does have their own sealant but the OSI is on their alternative approved sealant list. Aqua Defense is also on their approved liquid membrane list. I am not sure however if AD will bond to the OSI. I assumed they would since they are both on the list but I know what they say about assuming, so I’ll do some testing first.

3. I really was feeling ify about the fibafuse and think you might be right that it’s over kill. It was a case of reading online how a few people used that method and thought why not.

4. Thanks for the advice on the ceiling. I think it will make my life easier if I take down that one sheet of goboard on the ceiling and replace with drywall. In the shower area, the wall to ceiling joint would you, A) Coat the wall and ceiling side of the joint with AD? B) Coat just the wall side of the joint with AD? C) Wouldn’t need to use AD on that joint at all?

5. I was going to use 1/8” gap along the apron down the wall and fill with the OSI sealant. 1/8 is the gap recommended from GB. I was going to cut the GB at 33 1/2 that would put it 1 1/2” pass the tub since the tub is 32” off the wall. Using 3 inch bull nose tile, 1 1/2” of the tile would be on GB and 1 1/2” over drywall with the seam being almost down the center. Then coating the seam with AD. Would you still recommend a 2” minimum of GB off the apron? I was just worried that it would be harder to conceal / finish the seam if it was only 1” from the end of the bullnose.

6. Regarding the tub apron bottom. I was just going to use the OSI sealant along the concrete slab. Then look to seal it again after the floor was laid down.

7. Where the wall meets the tub flange I’m the most unsure. The tub manufacturer said to use flange clips which I have. I’m including an image of their diagram. There is 1/4” to 1/2”where the GB would end above the tub flange. Should I just fill that area in with sealant?

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Thanks again for the advice and things to consider.
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Unread 01-08-2022, 09:57 AM   #4
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Cliff,

4) IMO the GB to ceiling joint in the tub/shower needs nothing more than standard drywall finishing; paper or mesh tape and compound. I actually prefer a product called Strait-Flex instead of paper or mesh tape as it makes really nice and straight inside corners, makes life easier for folks like me who just can't seem to develop a knack for finishing drywall. For a stronger bond you might consider using hot mud (comes in a bag), then use a pre-mixed compound for the final coat. Since your tile will be going up to the ceiling you don't even need to feather out the compound on the GB any lower than 4 or so inches. Optional is to seal it with a good primer on the GB, but definitely on the ceiling.

I would not use AD anywhere that won't be covered with tile, the texture will surely show through the paint.

5) The critical areas are the tubs' front radius and the inside corner where the GB will meet the tub apron. You'll want to fit the GB to hug both, leaving the aforementioned gap to be filled with sealant.

Achieving that tight fit might be difficult because of the tub flange and, the clips you mentioned. I assume the tub is plastic or fiberglass (as is mine). Instructions for mine was to drill through the lip and secure it to the studs with SS screws. The use of the clips as shown in your drawing will cause the GB to bow out at the bottom where it goes over the clips and the clip fasteners, unless you remove material from the back of the GB in those areas. Still leaves you with the GB ending just above the top of the flange (which will create a challenge to get the GB to hug the front radius of the tub). If the tub flange isn't very thick you might be able to create a rabbit on the back of the GB which would allow the GB to drape over the flange and be within 1/8" of the tub deck, which you could then fill with sealant. Another option, depending on the how the room is configured, is to install furring strips roughly the same thickness as the tub flange (in my case about 1/2") and then install the GB.
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Unread 01-13-2022, 09:00 AM   #5
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The tub is fiberglass. The tub flange with the clip is 9/16, so the 1/2 GB wouldn’t be able to drape over the flange and clip. I could rabbit the back of the GB and bring it just over the tub flange and caulk the gap. Doing that the tile would go over the tub flange and have an inch or so that isn’t support by the GB.

Which leaves me with a question about my 2 options.

1. If I bring the GB to the top of tub flange, caulk the gap. The tile over the flange wouldn’t be supported by the GB. My tub instructions indicate that’s the recommended way and I’ve seen diagrams of others doing it that way. I’m sure I can get it tight and waterproof but how would I get the grout to be secure over the sections that wouldn’t have GB behind them? Having that inch of tile over the flange that doesn’t have GB behind, will that lead to my grout continually cracking there?

2. If my tub/shower tile walls will transition straight to drywall, I wouldn’t be able to use furring strips to bring the GB below the tub flange, would I? Seems if I used furring strips to bring the GB past the tub flange, it would make transitioning from the tile to drywall impossible? Unless I used furring strips on that entire wall?

Thanks,
Cliff
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Unread 01-13-2022, 10:36 AM   #6
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I think you're both talking about a rabbet, but if you wanna put a rabbit in there and try to tile over it, makes no difference to moi.

Stopping the wallboard above the tub's tiling flange is fine, Cliff, but you still need to waterproof that junction and a bead of caulk is just not sufficient in such an area of guaranteed movement.

I recommend you use a sheet-type direct bonded waterproofing membrane over that area, with the the tub-flange portion bonded with an appropriate sealant/adhesive and the wallboard portion bonded with an appropriate thinset mortar. Makes a good waterproof joint and allows some movement accommodation, 'specially if you give the membrane a bit of a wedgie into the joint.

Unless you're planning to use small mosaic tiles on the shower walls, that bit of unsupported overhang over the tiling flange shouldn't be a problem.

2. If you elect to fur out your shower wallboard to fit over the tiling flange on the drain side, yes, you'd need to do something to accommodate that on the rest of the wall. You will, of course, have made your tub wallboard extend at least a few inches beyond the front of the tub and you could use some sort of decorative trim there, or you could fur out the entire wall as you suggested. That could be a simple matter of installing a second layer of 1/4" or 3/8ths" drywall over the existing, which is pretty simple unless there are doors or windows to accommodate. In that event you'd need to make jamb extensions and such, which may get a bit complicated.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-13-2022, 02:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff
Unless I used furring strips on that entire wall?
That's exactly how I did mine, Cliff, but I didn't have any openings to work around. The drywall in the entire bathroom was already down so it was an easy decision for me. I was able to get the foam board to within 1/8" of the tub deck and a nice tight fit around the front radius and down the front. All I need to do now is caulk the joint with sealant.

Even if I had to rip some jamb extensions I'd probably still do it that way, but that would have been another easy decision since the door casing was removed.
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Unread 01-14-2022, 12:32 AM   #8
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1-1/4" Backer-On,Rocker-On Screws

Hi Cliff,
I will be using JM's GoBoard and have investigated proper screws for application of the tile backer board. I just want to say that I was advised NOT to use any of the screws recommended for cementious/fiber-cement types of tile backer board. Pretty much all of them have "teeth" on the underside of the head for grinding, self-countersinking in CBU type backer boards. It is said that this will 'tear' a hole into the surface of the GoBoard, compromising the surface that the screw head 'pulls' on. It's like over driving a nail into HardiPlank. A contractor the other day told me he just uses regular drywall screws. They have the bugle head, no grinding teeth, and tend to pull on the surface skin, holding the backer to the framing very adequately. I just received a pack of JM's washer and screw combo pack, which I had one heck of a time locating. I think they are an older, original version as the screw is quite different than what JM shows on their Site now. The screws are about identical to a drywall screw, a #7 I'd say, except that they have hi-low threads;Phillips #2 drive and some kind of gray coating that doesn't look very substantial. JM's new screws are dark blue, with a wider head for more pull on the board skin without washers and with less chance of a rupture, and a much better Torx drive. Worst part is that NO ONE in this world seems to have them in stock.
I'm using the washers along with the screws hence I'll stick with the smaller head screws---really tired of looking for JM stuff. I would caution if power driving your screws, get them close and then finish by hand so as not to overdrive and puncture the skin. Good success.
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Unread 01-14-2022, 09:49 AM   #9
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I do have the drywall down in the room, however, I would also need to bring out the other side wall where my toilet is. I already moved my tub drain, I would hate to think I needed to do that for my toilet. Figuring if I moved the wall out 1/2” that would throw off my toilet placement.

So, I’m liking the idea of bringing the GB just above the tub flange.

CX, would Kerdi-Band be the type of waterproofing membrane you are referring to, or do you have something else in mind?

BTW, if it’s relevant, I’ll be using 12”x24” tile.

Gary, I know, I check every week to see if any place has those blue GB fasteners in. Can you tell just by looking if the schluter screw and washers are identical?

I greatly appreciate all the advice. I’m feeling much more comfortable moving forward.
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Unread 01-14-2022, 10:19 AM   #10
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You could set the toilet in place to see how much space you have behind the tank, but I get the dilemma.

Yep, Schluter's Kerdi band and their Kerdi Fix sealant/adhesive, or a competing product; I used Laticrete's Hydro Ban band and their sealant/adhesive.

The 12X24's you plan on using are in your favor when it comes to the void between the tub deck and the bottom of the GB. There will be plenty of tile on the wall so they can just drape down over the void without issue. Just remember to set the bottom row low enough to go around the front radius, as shown below.
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Unread 01-16-2022, 12:47 AM   #11
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Schluter screws and washers identical?

Cliff, I looked at the Kerdi screw/washer combo pack at Bedrosians Portland and decided to look further. Screws were phillips drive, smaller, not broad, head. I ordered the JM online from a larger lumber chain in the Seattle area, never saw a picture of them, nor did I have any idea there was an "early" model, and a "new, improved" (if indeed they are) model. When I got them I discovered they are about (this what I cal NOS, New Old Stock) identical to kerdi's, both the washers as well as the screws. If I did it again knowing what I do now I'd just go with the Kerdi as that's what's available here in Portland area.
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Unread 01-21-2022, 10:14 AM   #12
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Thanks Gary, I’ll be using the kerdi screws then.

Dan, you mentioned being hesitant using staples on the back wall that has just 1x strips. Would it be a better plan to fur out that wall with 19/32 plywood. Just buying a 4x8 sheet and cutting my own furring strips. Securing with 1 1/4 screws. So instead of staples going in just 1/2 to the wall 1x’s the screws would go in roughly 5/8 (if my math is correct). I could also use a construction adhesive between the two?

If I use the 19/32 to fur out the wall, when I put down the 1/2 goboard would I need to use 1 3/4 inch screws that went through the GB, plywood, and 5/8 in to the wall 1X’s? Or, would it be ok to just use 1 1/4 screws that went into the GB, plywood, and only 1/8 in to the wall 1X?

My thinking is just going through the plywood would be good enough since the plywood is secured to the wall 1X’s. Is that line of thinking wrong?

I am also thinking about furring out one other wall slightly. Would it be acceptable to make furring strips from something like this, 1/5 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Hardwood Plywood Underlayment Panel?
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Unread 01-21-2022, 02:44 PM   #13
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If JM identified a suitable adhesive to use between the 1X's and the Go Board then the 1" staples would be fine; the adhesive would carry the shear load. If there won't be an adhesive used I'd be very apprehensive to rely on only those (comparatively) small gauge, and short staples. But that's just my opinion.

If you share that opinion, then adding some depth to those existing furring strips will definitely do the trick, and the ripped ply is a good choice. If you use a suitable adhesive between already in-place furring and the new you don't really need much in the way of mechanical fasters; the adhesive will carry the shear load once cured, so use whatever faster necessary to hold the new strips flat against the old. After that you could then use whatever length screw the GB requires, but of course no longer than the combined thickness of the GB and the furring, plus however much the screws will be sunk into the GB.

From your previous descriptions of your wall framing I'm not sure what furring out one of the walls by only 1/5th of an inch (if I'm reading right) gets you, but yeah, that stuff you linked to would do the trick as a shim. It, of course, isn't thick enough to hold anything on its own so your fasteners need to be a bit longer.
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