Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 11-06-2013, 01:07 PM   #1
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Bathroom update questions

The folks in this forum were extremely helpful with my last project and many associated questions, so I'm back with a few more questions to go with a new project. I am re-tiling a bathroom. Questions:

1) The old floor tile was adhered directly to the plywood subfloor. What is the best way to re-tile the floor... tile directly on plywood, use backer board, use Ditra, or a combination of these (or something else)?

2) Does the adhesive remaining on the floor need to be removed, or can it just be covered by whatever is recommended in question 1? Want to save time and effort if possible, but I don't want the final product to suffer just to shave off a couple hours of effort.

3) I did a kitchen backsplash with StarGlass urethane grout. That product is now Bostik Dimension grout. Love the performance in the kitchen, but wondering if anyone has experience/recommendations for using it on a floor or in a shower?

Thanks in advance.
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 11-06-2013, 07:14 PM   #2
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,493
Welcome back, Bill.

1. We need to know a lot more about the floor to get started here, but for sure you don't wanna tile directly to the plywood. Start by entering the required information into the Deflectometer in the dark blue bar above. Then tell us very specifically what you have for joists and everything above them.

2. See #1.

3. Urethane grout can be used in those applications. The drying time for use in wet areas is as much as 7 days, so read and follow manufacturer's instructions and plan ahead.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2013, 07:42 PM   #3
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Thanks, cx!

Went to the deflectometer page, but didn't enter any details since it said not to if you have engineered i-joists, which I do. The joists are engineered wood, 24 inches on center. On top of the joist is a single layer of 3/4 inch plywood subfloor. Plywood appears to be attached to joists with liquid nails and "standard" nails. On top of the plywood is some adhesive residue from the (crappy) original tile job, but that's it.

Let me know if there is any other info that I can provide.
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2013, 08:03 PM   #4
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,493
You can get the manufacturer's designation from the joists and compare what you've got to their published span table, but it's pretty rare that an engineered wood joist structure isn't designed meet at least the minimum building code requirements.

The 24" spacing indicates that the previous tile installer really wasn't your friend. Even with the required two layers of plywood subflooring you can't tile directly to plywood over 24" joist centers.

Might just be old age, but I still can't see the condition of your floor from here. A photo or two may or may not help.

What you need is to remove everything from the surface of that plywood that is much thicker than a stain, then add another layer of nominal half-inch plywood, then the tiling substrate of your choice, then your ceramic tile. If you use Schluter's Ditra as your substrate, you can get by with 3/8ths" plywood, but I wouldn't use anything less than half-inch.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #5
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
We bought the house new (it's 18 years old), so all tile work was done by the builder contractors. And you're right, they certainly didn't do me any favors here. I'll post some pics later, but the condition of the floor is actually pretty good.

With the addition of a second layer of plywood and a substrate, we're talking a fairly significant rise in the floor, especially as it relates to the transition to the hallway floor outside of the bathroom. Seems like that might be a bit of a challenge for me... more to plan for!

Thanks for all your help on this. I would never have figured this out on my own. But while I have your attention... Given that the floors weren't done properly, I'm betting that the shower walls weren't either. My plan was to apply a layer of KERDI to the existing wall material prior to installing the tile. Is this the correct approach? I'm happy to supply any detail you need to answer.
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2013, 11:26 PM   #6
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 28,236
Bill,

I can't see your shower from here, even if I stand on my chair. A few pictures will help, especially a cross section of the shower wall, taken like the picture below.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-07-2013, 06:23 PM   #7
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Thanks Houston and cx. Sorry it took so long, but here are a few pictures. Hopefully they are of high enough quality that you can see what you are looking for.

Something tells me I've got a lot more work ahead of me than I originally anticipated...
Attached Images
    
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-07-2013, 06:29 PM   #8
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,493
Well, I have good news, Bill. You don't hafta try to clean those walls at all.

Bad news is that you really need to replace the wallboard entirely.

A CBU of your choice would be the logical replacement, unless you want to use Kerdi as your waterproofing membrane.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-07-2013, 07:05 PM   #9
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Yep... that's more than I originally anticipated.

Just curious, how can you tell it needs to be replaced, and why does it need replacing? (not arguing, just trying to learn some stuff)

When I replace it, do I need to go from tub all the way to the ceiling, or can I replace only the area over which I will add tile?

In terms of your statement about CBU... are you saying that I could opt to use Kerdi on top of the existing board? Or are you saying that I can use any CBU I choose, but there are restrictions if I want to use Kerdi in addition to the board?

Thanks again for all the help.
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-07-2013, 07:49 PM   #10
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,493
Arguing is fine here, Bill, long as everyone remains civil.

I'm assuming that you intend to have a shower over that tub and your current wallboard appears to be gypsum board and that's no longer permitted in wet areas by code. Unless, as mentioned earlier, you elect to use Kerdi for your waterproofing as Schluter has special dispensation for the use of their product.

But even then you couldn't install the membrane over drywall in the condition of what you have.

You need replace only the part which will be waterproofed, which must extend above the shower head supply pipe.

You could install a four or six-mil polyethylene sheet over the studs, install CBU, and tile over that. Very cost effective. Or you can install CBU and cover it with a direct bonded waterproof membrane, liquid-applied (involves other condiderations) or sheet-type. Costs more. Or the drywall and Kerdi. Also costs more.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-07-2013, 09:27 PM   #11
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Got it. Thanks again for all the help and advice.
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #12
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Had to take a break for a bit, but have re-started the work and have a couple additional questions.

In regards to installing a vapor barrier, one of the walls is an exterior wall with faced insulation installed. The paper facing is toward the exterior of the house, so the unfaced side is visible from the interior. Will there be any issues with installing the polyethylene in this scenario? Also, would you recommend insulating the interior walls in the shower area?

Sorry if I have strayed too far from tiling advice. Thanks!
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-20-2013, 02:52 PM   #13
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,493
If you'd put a geographic location into your User Profile it would help in answering some kinds of questions, Bill.

You should have no problem using the poly moisture barrier in your application.

Insulating the interior walls for what purpose?
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #14
ps0303
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 73
Unless you sing in the shower and you sound terrible and the sound of your voice can carry thru CBU and tile, no need to insulate the interior walls.

Seriously, no need to insulate on interior walls.

Gut down to the studs and put up CBU. Remember, what you are doing is an investment and you want it to last a good long time. Is $$ the reason why you don't want to tear out the drywall? Because if you don't do it right the first time, you will be redoing not too far down the road and then your saving from the first time just went out the window.
__________________
Paul
ps0303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-20-2013, 03:26 PM   #15
WTB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 17
Profile now updated with Northern Virginia location.

CX - I'm curious about the interior wall insulation primarily for sound abatement. Also, I am going to replace the existing insulation while I'm inside the wall and expect to have some insulation left over, so I figured I'd stuff it into an interior wall rather than throwing it away (assuming that doesn't create any problems).

ps0303 - Sorry if I sound like I don't want to rip out drywall, that's not my intent. In fact, I've already ripped it out down to the studs. Just want to make sure I put everything back together properly. To your point, I want this done right and have it last a long time.

Thanks!
__________________
Bill
WTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with bathroom update DIYernube Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 02-22-2012 03:48 PM
8'x5' bathroom update GLPs Tile Forum/Advice Board 29 11-01-2011 04:42 AM
Update, Photos and Questions Steve Thompson Tile Forum/Advice Board 59 02-28-2009 07:28 AM
Update and new questions regarding masterbath edbreyer Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 12-28-2004 07:05 PM
An update on our tile for new townhouse, and a few questions... Jim in San Francisco Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 07-26-2004 07:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC