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Old 07-17-2011, 06:21 PM   #1
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Cement board in tub area green board behind toilet ?

Greetings, I am gutting a 1940 bathroom to the studs and will be installing cement backer over 40lb felt on the three walls around the tub for tile. I will also be tiling 4 feet up in the sink and toilet area. Should I use cement board under the tile in the "dry" areas or would green board be acceptable. Also I have read so much regarding the application of Redguard or similar water resistant products, would that be the best way to proceed? I will be using thin set recommended by my tile supplier. Would Redguard for the floor also be a wise move? Thanks and sorry if this has been discussed before but I am new here and am a little overloaded with all the information , Great site , thanks.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:32 PM   #2
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Welcome, Dave.

Pay very close attention to your water management in the shower area and very little to the areas outside the wet areas.

I don't believe I've ever seen 40lb roofing felt and would think it very, very difficult to use as a moisture barrier in your application. The tile industry will accept #15 felt (what usta be 15lb) or 4mil polyethylene and either would make life a lot easier and provide a more effective overlap on the tub's tiling flange.

Outside the wet areas, regular sheetrock is fine. And you can tile directly to it if you like. Using CBU for the lower parts of your walls where you intend to tile makes a better tiling surface, but isn't required. I wouldn't bother with any RedGard or similar outside the wet areas or on the floor, but you can if you like.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:39 PM   #3
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Your proposed plan sounds fine, although I would probably use six-mil plastic around the shower area instead of felt paper. Regular sheetrock in the other areas is fine, provided the area isn't expected to get wet.

Redgard will work for your project, but I wouldn't bother doing the whole floor. You might do an area immediately in front of the tub as sort of a "drying off" area if you want. Don't use it in conjunction with the six mil six-mil plastic, though. Use one or the other.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:14 AM   #4
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Thanks for the quick replies. The 40 lb felt idea was because I have a roll but now that you mention it, the stuff is a wrestling match going up and I will go the poly route for sure.
Regarding the overlap on the tiling flange, I am going with the Kohler villager and there isn't much of a flange at all, more of a little bump. I think I read somewhere that poly should go down to the floor behind the tub and the cement board should be held 1/4 away from the tub to avoid wicking and of course a silicon caulk bead around that bump of a flange. The face of the 1/2 cement board will hang over that bump and the tile will then kind of overlap, again keeping the edge of the tile a spacer width away from the tub and then caulk
What do you all think, am I drunk or crazy? Thanks again, it helps a great deal to have people to go to for advice, I have done a couple kitchen floors and a back splash or two but this is by far the most ambitious tile job I have ever attempted and the job foreman (wife) has high expectations and failure is not an option.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
I think I read somewhere that poly should go down to the floor behind the tub and the cement board should be held 1/4 away from the tub to avoid wicking and of course a silicon caulk bead around that bump of a flange.
If you're fixin' to do that you might as well eliminate the poly all together. That would actually be an improvement.

If the tub doesn't have a sufficient tiling flange, I'd recommend you add one. Kohler likely makes one that will fit on that tub edge.

Absent that, it's even more important to get your CBU on the inside of that bump and have your poly drape over the bump, too. You can leave the poly long, like draping into the tub a foot or more, until time to tile the bottom row and cut it off so it doesn't extend to the tile face.

Otherwise it might be a whole lot better to use a direct bonded waterproofing membrane on the inside of the shower walls and lap that onto the tub surface behind the tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #6
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I have had no luck finding a flange kit. I thought the Kohler Villager was a common tub and that the flange was relatively standard.

In summary this is where I am at"

1/2 cement board to the top of the flange and silicone caulk at that joint to prevent wicking.

RedGuard over the cement board with the bottom of the tile over lapping the flange and that final 1/8 inch caulked with color matched caulk.

I wish I could find a decent photo of the tub flange but no luck. I'm still a week of so away from tiling so my quest to find the best practice will continue.

Thank you again for your support
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:51 PM   #7
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The villager, like many c.i. tubs, has a very small "flange". I use that term loosely, it's more like a little speed bump.

You can glue a Kerdi flange to the top of tub, just like it shows in the Kerdi installation instructions. And then continue with Kerdi over the whole thing.

Or, as you indicate, you can us a liquid membrane over the backer board, and caulk the bottom of the board at the tub. I'd use a caulk like Kerdi Fix or Noble Sealant or other quality urethane between the tub & backer.

For either method, you'd also caulk the tile to the tub with a color matched silicone after the grout cures.
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:20 AM   #8
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Thanks to all for the great advice. I am picking up the tub today and will begin demo in a day or so and most likely be checking back as needed. I think the last great hurdle is going to be the window trim . I have read so many great solutions it's tough to decide.
Thanks again good people.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #9
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Tile saw recommendation

I am in need of a tile saw and seems to me the rental for a day is half the cost of an entry level saw. I may need more than a day and the rental would be approaching the cost of a more decent saw so I am thinking maybe I buy one and sell it when my job is done. I don't want to get in trouble asking for brand name recommendations but any advice would be appreciated. So the question is rent a higher end saw or buy a middle priced saw.
I have spent a boat load of cash on this little bathroom and don't want to be foolish and ruin the cuts.
I have 12 x12 tiles to cut on the diagonal for the floor.

As always thanks for your support.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:50 PM   #10
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Do you want to be able to work without hurrying? Do you ever plan to tile again? If you answer yes to these questions you might want to buy. I used my under $300 retail saw almost every day for months and it did a workmanlike job. It is now folded up waiting for bathroom #2.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:58 PM   #11
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Dave, it'll help if you'll keep all your questions, even tile saw questions, on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like.

Tile saw questions are one of the most discussed topics on the site. If you'll type "tile saw" or "wet saw" or similar into the Advanced Search feature you'll find hundreds of thread, some nearly identical to your question. Lots of reading to give you a feel for the various ways to approach the issue.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:20 PM   #12
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Thanks for the pointers and keeping this newbe on track, I tried a search but will now go for an advanced search.
I am in no hurry on this job and will likely buy, there are a couple nice ones I saw at that blue big box store, their brand, good reviews.

As long as I can mix topics, I should mention just how heavy a cast iron tub is, it's one thing to read 320 lbs and another thing all together moving it around. It's in the garage, not quite sure how I'm going to get it in the house. Fortunately it's a first floor bath.

I'm loving this forum.

I am not having much luck searching for tile saw threads, finding lots of other good stuff but not much about saws. I hate to admit it but I recently retired, got kicked out, job went to India, from 35 years in the Computer and network engineering industry. Wouldn't you think I could perform a simple search? Hope my tile skills are better.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:03 AM   #13
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Green board to cement board seam

Sorry for the continued questioning, regarding the seam where tile meets sheet rock, I have a thin tile chair rail 1.5" that will cap the tile and then transition to sheet rock. Placement of that seem is troubling me and whether to mesh tape and use thin set or tape and spackle and where to place that joint, under the chair rail would be difficult and if I could avoid another taped joint to finish on the drywall I would be happy. So can I place that seam in the last course of full tile? Thanks again.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:25 AM   #14
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Yes, as long as that location is outside the wet area of the shower.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:40 AM   #15
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Dave, are you remembering to put your queries in quotes when searching multiple words? Like "tile saw" rather than tile saw? Makes a difference. I get 371 pertinent threads under "tile saw," for example, with "Recommendation on tile saw" at the top of the queue.
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