Hollow sounding Shower floor tiles

[Jsmallberries]

The final frontier, I did the hall bathroom and kitchen myself, now looking to remodel the master bath shower. It is about 20 years old, slab on grade and it is about a 3" step down from floor level.

It is still in good shape except for a hollow sounding section of floor tile,about 1 foot radius.

This was new construction back in late 99.. At first the grout lines kept opening up and they sent their "best" tile guy, who kept caulking the cracks. 6 months in they had to tear it out. When using the shower, the water would drain out under the bathtub, I found this out myself by pulling the tub to investigate the moldy damp smell coming from the pocket door opening adjacent to the tub

I don't remember how they re-did the shower base. I insisted they use durock substrate for the walls, and forced them to put plastic behind it. The weren't 't going to.

If I tear this out to the studs and rebuild, not including shower enclosure. Just trying to decide if I can afford it, just a ball park estimate?

[Davy]

John, it's best to find a couple installers in your area and have them come over and give you a bid. Most estimates are free and we just consider bidding jobs as part of what we do. Besides, cost will vary from one region to the next.

Since you're in Florida, there's probably not a shower pan liner under the floor tiles. That's not the way we would do it but it seems to be acceptable in Florida.

[Jsmallberries]

Thanks Davy,,

If I attempt this myself,what's the best method for a long lasting leak proof shower in this recessed slab on grade. It's 4' x 4' interior space.

Would Durock shower system membrane be a good option?

[Lazarus]

Durock System is good. Kerdi System is also good.

[jboyles]

Originally Posted by Jsmallberries

Thanks Davy,,



If I attempt this myself,what's the best method for a long lasting leak proof shower in this recessed slab on grade. It's 4' x 4' interior space.



Would Durock shower system membrane be a good option?

I’m in the midst of a full remodel. Very similar layout to yours. We had a 32”x32” shower stall with an oversized tub right next to it.

I’m using the USG shower system with a linear drain, chose higher end fixtures and moderate prices tile. To do the full bathroom with everything replaced, I’ll probably spend about $7k. I’m doing everything myself and will try not to hire anything out. Check out the thread I made.

Jon


Link to jboyles' thread

[Jsmallberries]

Thanks,

For now I am replacing the marble threshold and top cap(that the frame sits on) removing the shower frame to clean & repaint, clean or replace the gasket/seals, new shower valve and hardware, step back and see what it looks like

Mostly slave labor at this point(me)..any one ever paint a shower frame before?

Next step, complete tear out?

[Jsmallberries]

I was simply going to remove and refurbish the shower frame, and replace the top cap(6" wide marble) prior to reinstalling the shower frame

The concrete backer board came up with the marble. Under it was a heavy plastic with numerous galvanized nails through it. Under the plastic the framing looks rotted. See pics

Here's the thing, the framing is solid and perfectly dry and this shower gets used every day.

So what i suspect, water had been entering from running down the sides of the marble top, and entering under the marble through poorly caulked transition at the top of the tiled knee wall.

There was also a slightly open seam at the marble right angle. Water was getting in, sitting under the plastic for years

A couple of years ago, I removed all the caulk and loose grout, re-grouted and re caulked, no more water intrusion, so it's dry now even with daily use

1) If this had been built correctly, water entering would run down the plastic, behind the concrete backer and end where?

2) What are my options now. I would prefer to make it serviceable and not start a rebuild. it's a 20 year old shower, slab on grade recessed.

Any help would be appreciated

[Davy]

The plastic should go behind the cement board and overlap the shower pan liner.

Your options are to leave it or tear it out. Since you have the marble off the curb, I would dig down and see if the nailed cement board on top of it.

[Jsmallberries]

Hey how can I change the main heading?

Anyway, I don't think there is a curb, it's recessed from the slab. This was a failed install from day one, nothing was done correctly. 6 months in
(purchased new in 2000) they had to tear it out and re-build it all. Water was simply running under the tub when using the shower.

I forced them to use concrete backer with plastic behind it, they wanted to put back green board. I wasn't there when the shower pan was re-done,or done for the first time.

So far with the curb, I see metal lath with a tapcon holding it and part of the old vinyl floor that used to be in the bathroom

What exactly am I looking for? Concrete backer on top of the shower liner?

Oh yeah, one more thing. Shouldn't the knee wall framing under the tile and the top cap be angled in, towards the shower like a sill?

[Davy]

I should have been more clear. You don't want to see cement board on top of the curb but is what we usually see. I see the lath which is a good sign. I don't like seeing the Tap con.

Very few of us ever angle the top of the pony wall and curb. I've never seen it when tearing out a shower.

Let us know if you want the thread name changed.

[Jsmallberries]

Yes main heading to
Damage under marble cap on knee wall, or what ever is the correct name for the top marble.

Now that I look at this again, even if constructed correctly, water will not drain on a flat surface, but sit there under the plastic in this case, since it had so many nails through it.

Wouldn't it be correct to slightly angle the top 2x4 towards the shower, then shim the concrete backer to be level, That way, water entering would hit the plastic under the backer and run behind down behind the tile then over the shower liner?

I could put some type of angled wood down, water proof membrane over that and over lap the remaining plastic?? see photo, red is the angle wood and the darker line is the water proof membrane

If you weren't going to rebuild the knee wall, how would you close this backup?

[Jsmallberries]

sorry , just thinking this through, but what good is plastic or any other water proof membrane if you then put nails through it?

What about concrete backer slightly angled with a water proof membrane on the top, overlapping the remaining plastic?

[Just In Tile LLC]

That's a tough one John, it's all about getting an effective tie in with that plastic assuming everything else is good. When I have a horizontal surface in a shower (besides the dam) I use a self seal stick on flashing. I suppose one could carefully clean out the top of knee wall, apply the flashing overlapping the plastic, put in lath on top, fastening as far back as possible, mud it, then tile. I personally don't penetrate the horizontal surface, even with the "self seal flashing" I'd staple the wire on the stud on the opposite side of the shower enclosure, but you don't have that option without tearing out the back side.

[Davy]

This is a left over 2x4 that I ripped on my table saw. I used it for the top 2x4 on the last shower I tiled. I'll even use the small wedge piece to slope the top of a future curb. It doesn't have to be pretty.

[Jsmallberries]

I bought Mapai aqua defense, thinking I would cover the backer, but decided to use plastic instead. Trying to keep costs down

Used 1/4" poplar, shaped into a continuous shim with a belt sander

Stapled plastic to the back of the shim, on the high side. Then overlapped the existing plastic and stuffed it into the opening with a putty knife

1/4" Durock with very few screws used coated with silicone.

I think this is a good fix, next step is replacement as its 20 years old

1) For installing the engineered marble, will "dollops" of thinset be enough?

2) They also only had beveled on one side, probably better for a window? Does the beveled side go out or in?

3) Or can I add a bevel with a wet concrete polisher, using diamond pads.

4) How to deal with the overhang at the shower opening. If I end up with a door and frame it has to be flush at the opening, or can it be recessed with a cut out for the frame