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Old 10-03-2018, 07:31 PM   #1
SpunMonkey
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Can I put stone down?

Hello. Been reading and browsing this site a while now. Thankful to all who contribute and respond to posts on this site.

1920's New England Ballon Frame. (Real)2x8 joists. House is 18' wide at the joists' length. - there does appear to be a support below that could make this span only 12'..

Original Sheathing was removed. 2x8 blocking was placed 24"oc. 3/4" advantech T&G glued and screwed to joists. 3/8" underlayment was nailed down per Ditra Heat recommended fastener spacing. Plan was to use Ditra Heat as next layer. Floor seems incredibly solid to me now.

To be wife would like honed marble..Am I crazy?

Would a smallish Mosaic marble pose less threat to breaking? (larger than 2" per DitraHeat requirement)

Thanks a ton!

Tried several times to get all images to be right side up....

The last photo below is of the main floor below. the bathroom is being built above and on the left half of the picture.Name:  IMG_3257 3.jpg
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:20 PM   #2
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If you use the 'Deflecto' tool in the blue bar above and put in 12' @ 16"OC, and a 1.5"x8" joist, it comes up with L/389...if they're actually 2" thick, it only raises it a bit more, but a ways away from the L/720 required for a natural stone. So, no. The actual size of the tile has no impact on whether it will fail or not. The blocking doesn't help with the overall floor's deflection, but does help with the point loading some and the resonant frequency of the floor. Blocking helps the most during construction to keep the joists where they should be prior to the installation of the subflooring and ceiling below. Properly fastening the subflooring to the joists does most of the same function as blocking by keeping the joists where they are supposed to be and tying them all together. FWIW, adding blocking also adds to the dead load of the structure, which has some ramifications all by itself.

Also, in your picture, it appears that the ply you added is running along the joists verses crossing them...this seriously decreases its between joist deflection, and wouldn't be suitable for even ceramic tile.

Can't tell for sure...natural stone requires two layers of subflooring, so with some planks there, the second layer could be the Advantec if it was installed properly, but your deflection does not support natural stone.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:39 PM   #3
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Thank for your reply.

There is a section of narrow 3/8" underlayment that does run parallel to the joists. I was hoping that less breaks in material were better than orientation in a small area adjacent the 6x8 beam at the wall.

What type of tile would you recommend putting down?

Dont understand your last statement, there is two layers , 3/4" advantech and 3/8" underlayment.

Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:52 PM   #4
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Turning the a layer parallel to the joist essentially rendered it useless. All layers must run perpendicular to the joists. The 2nd layer should start at the 1/4 point of a joist bay and overlap the 1st layers' long seams having 2' on each side. So splitting the sheet in half. I would correct that before installing any type of tile.

After that you would be ok with a porcelain or ceramic.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:54 PM   #5
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Welcome, Matt.

What Jim said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
there does appear to be a support below that could make this span only 12'..
You don't wanna be guessing at that. You need to determine if that's a support wall or properly sized and supported beam.

I'm questioning your "3/8ths" underlayment." I know the industry tends to refer to the second layer of subflooring as underlayment even when, as in your case, it is not underlayment but a second layer of structural subflooring. In your photo that plywood does not look to me to be an exterior glue plywood, but rather and interior veneer plywood of some type. Could be just the photo, of course.

And you don't want any of your structural subflooring with the strength axis parallel to the joist structure. Especially with the nominal 3/8th" material which has something close to zero structural value perpendicular to the strength axis.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:42 PM   #6
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Thanks all. To the 3/8" ply, does not seem to be an exterior ply but "exposure 1" which is the spec from the ditra install manual and what the lumber yard sold me.

Guess that before I go any further, Ill have an engineer come look at this all. I do have couple hundred feet of hickory flooring that needs to be used should wood be deemed the best for the structure. Damn, was looking forward to a heated floor....
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:49 PM   #7
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Exposure1 is fine for your purpose, Matt.

While I've never done it, I know folks put radiant heating systems under hardwood flooring.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:19 PM   #8
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Radiant floor heating can work underneath a wood floor, but does not respond anywhere nearly as fast as under tile. You will also improve the effect if you use aluminum diffuser plates to run the tubing through and a radiant barrier underneath to help reflect that heat back up where you want it. A radiant barrier needs at least 1/2" air gap to work, or it becomes part of the radiation system itself.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:05 PM   #9
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Thanks all for the replies. Had a structural engineer come check everything out. he confirmed the span is 12', perhaps the wall at 8" helps "hang/shorten" the floor. He said to put whatever I liked down as it felt fine. As I want to only tile this once, and based on recommendation from you all, will do Porcelain tile and going for the Ditra heat underneath.

The wife will get marble in the Downstairs bath when that get redone...
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