Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-08-2018, 06:43 PM   #31
mrgedman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 23
Davy, Thanks so much

The boards framing the shower are mostly just so I get a decent edge on the mud. I imagined being brand new to this that I would smear it everywhere and not get a good pack on the mud, so having some strips for my baseboard and top edge seemed like a good idea. The window casing 2x is just a placeholder.

I know a wood window inside the shower is a terrible idea. I gave my friend a very thorough warning, and again tried to talk her into a narrower yet longer mud pan...

So I have a few dangling questions, just to be certain I’m doing this correctly as possible.

1. I know I can’t Redgard and then paint the window. I told my friend she and her man need to paint the shit out of it with the most hardcore paint she can get. Exterior paint has mildicides nd shit which would help, but I know you really aren’t supposed to use it inside for the cure... I know tiling it would be the best option, but I’m quite over my head already, and never done a window, though I have done a handful of nooks before.

2. My tar paper got several holes where there is no screw, due to tap cons and old brick. So I’d like to redgard it. I know a moisture envelope is a bad idea, don’t really see a way around it.

3. My plan for #2 is to leave a gap at the bottom of the mud wall in the shower, where the flange meets the “shelf”. I will not redgard the bottom edge of my mud wall. I will not caulk the gap, will raise tiles up 1/8 or 1/16. Problem is this “shelf” has almost no slope, and I imagine shit will grow there and be hard to clean...

Thanks again. I couldn’t do this without this community. Tile setters around here don’t do jobs like this, and I don’t know any that float walls.

I hope to call myself a mudman of the most amerature variety after I get the next coat up and flat . Heh, maybe I need to wait till the job is done
__________________
Ged
mrgedman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 09:21 PM   #32
mrberryman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 26
I'm actually a painter. For "hardcore paint" one experiment I tried, that still regardless failed was using Sherwin Williams Solo interior/exterior inside of a tub surround with a window in it that got tons of water contact. Worked for a while for the client, then started peeling, sanded, caulked, and primed with oil, too. A possibly better idea/spec is maybe Zinsser Perma-white. I've had better luck with it in bathrooms than that Sherwin paint. In the TDS it specifically states:
Quote:
Perma-White may be
used over any quality waterproofing paint to prevent mold
and mildew growth on the paint film.
So, I don't see why you couldn't use it over Redgard? I know Aquadefense doesn't stick well to wood, but if you primed it, then it'd stick. So you could go primer, Redgard, then Permawhite.

But it also says this:
Quote:
Perma-White Mold & Mildew-Proof Interior Paint is not
intended for application to floors or any surface subject to
immersion or prolonged contact with water including
shower enclosures, saunas or steam rooms.
I was on the phone with Zinsser today and the guy in the technical department was quite helpful.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, not tile mudding, but I've done some plastering and two tools that may help you a lot are a drywall wing tool for making perfect corners, and a rounded edge swimming pool trowel for your final mud coat. I like the swimming pool trowel as it doesn't leave as many lines.
__________________
Joe
mrberryman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 09:45 PM   #33
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 30,595
I can't say about the painting, sounds like Joe knows much more about that than I do.

I cut sticks on my table saw that measure 1/2 x 3/4. I use them on the sides where the mud meets the drywall. That gives me a nice surface to ride my straight edge on and keeps my mud 1/2 inch along that edge. That works good for standard mud bullnose. In case my scratch was too thick and I need more room for my finish coat, I'll turn the sticks so I have the 3/4 thickness. As you can see, the bullnose type, if I have any plays a role in the planning of my mud thickness, etc.

You have the tar paper behind the lath, even with a few small holes, I wouldn't worry about Redgard. Moisture just doesn't go thru fat mud that much. For years we didn't use any paper at all and I've torn out tons of mud showers that had no paper and 99% of the time they are bone dry. About the only time I use Redgard or Auqa Defense in a shower is in a niche. I'm not worried about a moisture sandwich in such a small area.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 01:01 AM   #34
mrgedman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 23
Smile

Here are some links on redgard trim painting:

10 year old terry love thread discusses fiberglass resin paint- marine grade epoxy paint... and suggests that you can’t paint over redgard. The thread was cute; this forum was suggested fairly quickly... Some more on painting over it in a bit...


This thread discusses a very interesting water proof room- a glass cutting studio where the owner wanted to spray it down to keep dust down. Called redgard. They said go for it, but no promises....

My limited understanding of wood finishes is in the uppity ‘fine woodworking’ area- typically anything soft over anything hard creates problems (though sometimes you want that silly (imho) pier one crackle distressed look. Once we used Elmer’s glue to help with crackle/texture...

Anywho, I’d imagine water will get past whatever paint is used, hit the redgard and peel the paint. I’d also guess that once it starts, it will happen very quickly. May be worth experimenting with under the terms that ‘if this no worky it’s on you’

I’d wager the only true long term solution is some sort of 2 part epoxy paint- marine grade. I’ve only used it once... and man that shit is caustic. I should have had goggles on- thought my eyes might melt, and I’d go blind...

Davy- good to hear about the tar paper. Saves me 50 smackers for the redgard. I always kinda wondered about wall waterproofing... I heard someone here start a sentence with “unless this is a human car wash...” I’d imagine most walls wouldn’t need much, as they get very little contact. When I shower in my small shop shower, about 80 or 90% of the walls are virtually bone dry. Excellent ventilation and an overhead rainfall head likely play a bit of a role... I guess some cement products are like sponges though...

I got lucky in that my friend didn’t want a niche. Dunno why, I love niches . Don’t really love making me though.

The rip sticks seem smart, extra smart with the flip and win. I thought about it, but kinda rushed through- some of the walls are so wonky anyway, that I wouldn’t trust them for a great gauge anyhow. The mud will need to be variable thickness just about everywhere.

I’m a tad worried that I cut the paper back too far at the top of the stall (flush with mud) but I imagine water will have a hard time getting up there. I’ll caulk the brick/drywall joint anyhow.

I don’t need to let the fat mud/stucco base set up more than a day do I? Day 1 scratch, day 2 final, day three tile it up?

Thanks guys! I’m hoping my thread here may be helpful to others. Maybe someday I’ll learn to not write so much
__________________
Ged
mrgedman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 08:58 AM   #35
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 30,595
Cement will absorb water, depends on how hard and dense it is and usually wall mud is pretty hard. Most mud guys that have several showers in a house will have a sand pile and will mix their own. So one guy might have better mud than the next. These days we tend to use more bagged mud that is more consistent.

About 2 years ago I replaced a shower that we installed 20 years earlier. The house was sold and the new owners wanted to update it. Back then green board was installed and we stapled lath right to the green board and applied a single coat mud bed. When we tore it out nothing was wet and no sign or water stains on the green board. It was bone dry. I've also tore them out that were 70 years old that were bone dry with no moisture barrier but there are a few that do have water damage. That's why it's best to use felt paper or poly.

I'll check the drywall before nailing up the rip sticks. If it needs it, I'll shim out the sticks here and there with small pieces of tar paper to get them straight and hopefully plumb.

Over night is plenty time for the mud to set. Before tiling, rub the walls lightly with a rubstone and I even vacuum the dust off the walls. If there's a little moisture still in the mud, it'll actually help you when tiling by buying you time after you spread your thinset.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com

Last edited by Davy; 10-09-2018 at 09:06 AM.
Davy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 04:31 PM   #36
mrgedman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 23
got the hard wall floated. boy was it hard. in prepping I checked the walls for flatness horizontally. didn't think about plumb. figured they couldn't be that bad, as brick walls kinda gotta be sorta plumb. boy was I wrong. almost an inch over 6'...

Well my mud tapers from just under an inch to 1/4+, with the thickness at the top. My buddy kept mixing the bscratch and brown wet, and it fell off the wall about three times.

I think it will be alright, but I dunno for sure. seems way thicker than the bag reccomend. I may have wet the wall too much; didn't notice my sprayer had no tip till I got here...

still the 'hard wall' (the masonry one) is pretty flat, and I'm getting it pretty smooth. gonna do the easy stud wall that is already incredibly flat and plumb. shooting for standard 3/4, 1/4 more than a one coat...

yikes this shit is hard. tons of props to you real mudmen
__________________
Ged
mrgedman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 08:28 PM   #37
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 30,595
Yeah, if you're gonna have to hang an inch of mud then you don't want to wet the scratch very much.

Any time you need to hang the mud extra thick, go ahead and apply mud in that area first, about 1/2 inch or so and give it 20-30 minutes to firm up before adding more mud on it.

It's all hard work but it won't kill you. You'll sleep like a baby.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insulation Interior Walls - Tile Shower theeld Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 11-02-2015 08:13 PM
Interior Bathroom Shower Walls sky Tile Forum/Advice Board 13 01-20-2009 10:44 AM
Interior Brick Wall Igotabear Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 10-21-2007 07:03 PM
Cleaning interior brick jerry717 Cleaning, Restoration and Sealing 9 06-02-2007 08:44 AM
BackerBoard exterior/interior? crislee Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 10-06-2005 09:08 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC