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Old 10-06-2018, 03:40 PM   #16
Davy
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Jim, we might need a close up pic of your drain. I can't see much with the rag in there. Have you taken the four bolts out of the drain? Most of the time those are rusted up real bad on cast iron drains.

Remember, on the floor, the surface that holds the water is the pan. The liner is the pan or if you happen to use a surface membrane, then it's the pan. I think there's some misunderstanding.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:05 PM   #17
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Davy said:
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Jim, we might need a close up pic of your drain. I can't see much with the rag in there.
Done.

Quote:
Have you taken the four bolts out of the drain? Most of the time those are rusted up real bad on cast iron drains.
No (3 bolts). Never gave it a thought until you guys said I may have to replace the drain.

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Remember, on the floor, the surface that holds the water is the pan. The liner is the pan or if you happen to use a surface membrane, then it's the pan. I think there's some misunderstanding.
Thx, I misunderstood... thought the pan was dry-pack surface, and preslope is slab/surface dry-pack is built on.

Thanks again for attn. to detail, you guys are great.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:07 PM   #18
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And yes, if you replace the drain & trap assembly, you would most likely choose a PVC replacement and then connect it to a flexible (preferably shielded) connector (aka "Fernco" etc.) that is rated for burial (i.e. the hardware is made out of stainless steel and thus corrosion resistant for decades to come).

How far to replace? It depends. At least just past the trap, obviously.

In my case it was simpler to run a completely new line from the shower to the toilet drain and tie it into that. I had to replace the riser & flange of my toilet drain anyway (cast iron that had been severely damaged during construction from the very beginning and was thus leaking water under the slab). The overall length of the run was only three feet. It felt better to replace the entire run.

Altogether, what and how much you replace really depends on your overall plumbing situation. After decades of use, though, it's good preemptive practice to replace as much as you can if you're opening up the slab anyway. Not pleasant to work on, I agree. But looking at your pics, I'd want a new drain installed for my shower and wouldn't want to work with this old thing.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:45 PM   #19
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I think it's a good idea to get your plumber friend involved. Replacing the drain and trap and centering it at the same time is the best way to go. I'd plan on renting a chipping hammer if you don't have one.
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:26 PM   #20
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makethatkerdistick/Davy,

Thanks a lot for making your case. I'm not all that happy about replacing that drain (mainly time constraints) but strongly inclined to follow your lead. My plumber buddy is coming by 1st thing Monday morning so I'll wait to see what he says. But looks like R&R is way to go.

Gracias!!!

Davy said:
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I'd plan on renting a chipping hammer if you don't have one
.

I don't have one. I had to remove a +/- 18 in. sq. portion of this slab just about 7 ft. away, and even with a 30lb jack hammer it was still quite a chore. Think I'll go with the jack hammer.

makethatkerdistick: As long as I replace that drain, will take your advice and center it.

...

So just to review: Assume I replace drain. then...

1) Do dry pack. Issues were raised here about my saying I was not going to use a liner, instead do complete Aqua Defense application on all surfaces. Any problem with that?

2) I also mentioned I got some Durarock to do a "skirt" in dry pack and a few inches above that pan (then UBS Fibrerock above). Seems ok to me, but nobody said anything so just want to double check.

Also, any special type of drain you recommend?

Once I get everything prepped and ready for tile I'll be fine. Done a ton of tile on floors/counters and showers others prepped and never had a single problem.

Thanks again, have a good weekend.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:21 AM   #21
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Plumber friend agreed I should replace entire drain. Will rent a jackhammer and get with it this afternoon. Thx again.
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:02 PM   #22
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Make sure plumber friend has a level to assure the drain is... level.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:07 PM   #23
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Rented & jack hammered slab down to p-trap this afternoon, about 3 hrs work. Dirt loosened all the way down. Had to return jack hammer, will finish digging it out first thing tomorrow.

Drain runs away in first photo.

I'll get parts after cutting out old pipe & taking it to nearby plumbing supply.

Houston Remodeler said:
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Make sure plumber friend has a level to assure the drain is... level.
My buddy just took quick look and said "replace it". I assume there is a recommended drop, figured I'd check with plumbing supply and install it accordingly. Hopefully I'll get that in tomorrow, get hole filled and concrete set tomorrow and take it from there. I guess good idea to put some visqueen under slab as in photos (???).

Thx guys, any tips/suggestions appreciated.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:09 PM   #24
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It'd be a good idea to add some plastic back in there. You can also drill a few holes in the edge of the slab for some rebar to go across. Fill the hole back in with dirt except for the top 4 inches, Add a slurry of thinset on the edge of the slab to bond the new concrete to the old.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:03 PM   #25
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Just a quick update. Old drain removed, new drain installed and hole filled to bottom of slab. Got some liner for top of dirt this evening, will line that entire surface tomorrow and finish drilling holes/install rest of rrebar. Plan of 2 bars across, 2 long. Unless any of you guys gives me another thing to do, will pour concrete tomorrow. Was advised for this purpose, concrete should cure for 4 days before doing dry pack.

Centered drain (with in +/- 1/4 in.) in floor as suggested.

Davy said:
Quote:
It'd be a good idea to add some plastic back in there. You can also drill a few holes in the edge of the slab for some rebar to go across.
Will do.

Quote:
Fill the hole back in with dirt except for the top 4 inches, Add a slurry of thinset on the edge of the slab to bond the new concrete to the old.
Ran this by one of concrete guys at Lowe's, he suggested using another product: Pro Select-Concrete bonding Adhesive & Acrylic Fortifier. He recommended slapping some on edge of existing slab, and mixing with my concrete as well.

This "exercise" has been a real education, really appreciate all your excellent help.

Wondering recommended thickness of dry pack at the drain before I glue on new drain.

Thx.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:18 PM   #26
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If this is a PVC liner you're installing, then you want the lower part of the drain, the widest part that is, at least 3/4" off the slab. This will put the connection just below the slab.

So use a straight edge and set your drain before pouring the concrete. Take careful measurements before and after setting the drain. A dry-fit is a good idea. (You don't want to have to bust up more concrete, right?)

Then you can pour the concrete and let it set. If you use rapid setting concrete you can probably continue with your pre-slope the next day. Don't worry about getting the concrete smooth and pretty. It can be a little on the rough side.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:12 PM   #27
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KMAN:

I finished drain install (and dry fit) Friday evening, poured slab yesterday (Saturday) so too lat to follow your instructions. Think I came pretty close though. Top of drain flange is nice and level, centered almost perfect on long dimension, off about 1/4 in on short dimensions.

I got a lot of conflicting advise locally, from setting bottom of drain flange below slab surface to 2 inches above. So I decided to just look at everything closely and use my common sense. EG. I wanted enough space under bottom of flange (above slab surface) so I could pack it well with dry pack, but wanted top of dry pack around the drain to be no more then +/- 2 inches (I based this on videos and articles I read on doing dry pack) above slab surface. Also picked up tip from one article to mix a little dry pack wetter then normal only to pack under drain flange.

Looking it over I'm pretty confident and have it now so that I can do a good quality dry pack and have a good installation. Still appreciate all your comments from guys in this game every day.

Put up most of Durarock abd Fibreboard today, will finish tomorrow. Plan on filling seams /corners/screw holes with thinset, use Use Goldblatt Alkali-resistant Cement board tape on seams/corners, then cover all tiled surfaces with Aqua Defense after I get dry pack installed. Got some other things to do, plan on doing dry pack on Tues or Wed.

I didn't use quick dry concrete, rather used ProFinish Crack Resistant and added additional bonding agent (and applied to edges of existing slab as well). Advised to really play it safe, let this sit 4 days before doing dry pack.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:21 PM   #28
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Is your pan waterproofing going to be aqua defense as well? If so, remember to give the drypack enough time to cure, per aqua D instructions
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:27 PM   #29
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If you're using a surface applied waterproofing on the floor, how do you plan to tie it to the drain?

I saw your last post was a few days old, sorry we didn't get around to answering your questions.

If that happens again, feel free to reply to your own questions with "bump" to send your thread to the top of the queue. Sometimes we just miss one here or there. It's not intentional.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:11 AM   #30
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LouMA: 100% Aqua Defense. Gon'a give it 24 hrs.

Kman: Aqua Defense to the drain, then I was advised to silicone between edge of tile and drain after tile installations.

Thanks for "Bump" tip, appreciate everyone's help.
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