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Old 08-14-2018, 12:15 PM   #16
mlawler626
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@ CX,

I'm not sure what you mean about being too thin... did you watch both videos? I'm following the instructions to the letter-- and I will choose a polymer-enriched mortar mix that is intended for the thin pre-pitch thickness... the quick-pitch collar adds thickness at the drain.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:15 PM   #17
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Yes, I've watched their videos, and I probably still have a set of their plastic strips somewhere in the storage area behind my shop, but I haven't looked at it lately.

Here's the deal, Michael. The pre-slope portion of that "system" allows only about 1/8th-inch or less of mud at the drain, which you have set flush with the concrete floor. Deck mud is simply not effective, even over concrete, even with polymer additives, at that thickness. Granted, it's only the pre-slope and can't do much harm there, but even that thickness will interfere with the smooth transition you want for your pan liner where it clamps into the drain. Alternatively, if the drain is set to allow about 3/4" mud thickness at the drain, the pre-slope mud can be bonded to the concrete surface and tapered smoothly to the drain flush with the top surface of the bottom flange allowing the liner to be smoothly clamped into the drain sections.

They then provide tapered strips for the top mud bed, which is supposed to be of uniform thickness and follow an already sloped pan liner, which is supposed to be sloped a minimum of 1/4" per foot from the farthest corner and have a level perimeter. The minimum thickness for the top mud bed is 1 1/2" according to ANSI standards. And the top mud bed should be sufficiently porous to allow easy and rapid passage of the moisture that soaks into it with each shower.

That top mud bed is what you'll bond your floor tiles directly to and putting plastic divider strips in it from perimeter to drain just makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

But, again, if you like it, use it. Just keep in mind how those traditional shower receptors are supposed to be constructed and see if you think that's what you did when you've finished.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:16 PM   #18
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I see now that they have plastic sticks that tapper to near zero. Thinset or patching mud may have to be used where it's too thin for dry pack. Not ideal but will work.

Like CX, I'm not crazy about using the sticks, especially in the top mud bed.

If you look at the second video, you'll notice big wrinkles in the pan liner near the drain. This is caused by either too much slope or from the preslope not being flush with the drain, or both. You want to avoid wrinkles.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:54 PM   #19
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Well, the drain base flange was PVC-glued after I had packed some of the Quikrete "Foam Coating" into the void... and I put a strap on it to pull the pipe level (it's not perfectly level but should be sufficient-- much better than it was...). I then continued packing the "Foam Coating" around the flange. So the drain flange is not coming out. I have followed Oatey's instructions. And you see it is flush in the videos as well.

@ Davey - Maybe they also did a poor job of laying out the membrane? But understood-- no wrinkles.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:02 PM   #20
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These companies make their instructions for their product without knowing that dry pack can't be tapered to zero. To them, if it is known, it's someone else's problem.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:10 PM   #21
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...well then, I will have to research the best product to use given where I am in this process.

If necessary I have some Bostik SL-200 Self-Leveler that can be feathered to zero. I can mix that thicker and use in the pre-pitch bed.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #22
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Yep, we understand that. As we all know, the product ad will state the pros but never the cons. Like the shower perimeter being out of level when using the plastic sticks in the top mud bed. Sure, it will make the mud job easier but will take much longer to tile the walls if you want the bottom row of tiles level, which we all do. Or, the fact that the mud will be weaker along those sticks. For a pro, a trip back to replace even one tile is money out of our pocket. It might take 2-3 hours to replace 1 tile figuring driving time etc. So, you can see where we're coming from. We try not to take any more chances than we have to.

Edit; You can use just about anything in the preslope as long as it sticks to the floor and the surface is smooth. The top bed is a different story.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:35 PM   #23
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I also plan to coat the final mud bed and cement boards with "HydroSeal" ...ProFlex's version of Red Guard-- before any tiling.

My main question at the moment is where I'm considering placing the curb 2x4. The Goof-Proof Kirb Perfect grid will add 1/2" on each side over the membrane... then you have the mortar, thinset, and 3/8" tile... so the finished curb should be somewhere between 5.75" - 6" wide.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I also plan to coat the final mud bed and cement boards with "HydroSeal" ...ProFlex's version of Red Guard-- before any tiling.
Michael, you really, really don't wanna do that if you've built a traditional receptor.

Either stay with your traditional method or use a direct bonded waterproofing membrane (preferably a sheet type) to build your receptor. Either will work just fine, but trying to do both will create a bad situation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:45 PM   #25
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@ CX, why is it wrong to put HydraSeal/RedGuard on the cement board and final mud floor? Or are you saying it's OK on the walls, but not the floor (because the mud bed is designed to be porous?)?
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:56 PM   #26
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Saying exactly that, Michael. If you put it on your mud floor you'll seal the mud such that it cannot dry to the surface as designed, but not so well that it can't get wet. You'll end up with water molecules in there that you can give your grandchildren's grandchildren if the shower lasts long enough.

That might not be such a problem except that the water that gets in there will also contain all manner of body oils, soap residue, and whatever other products are used by the frequent flyers in your shower. By and by the grandkids will be axin' "Grandpa, why does your shower smell like a swamp?"

Choose a single method of shower receptor construction and employ that method correctly. It'll work just fine.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:36 PM   #27
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There's no way to seal that added membrane to the drain and water will get into the mud bed. Not only there but if your drain line/riser pipe/ trap ever gets partially blocked and slows down the flow, water will back up into the mudbed thru the weepholes. We install one membrane the best we can and trust it.

We usually add a row of tiles outside the jamb, on the bathroom side. If you plan to do that then make the plastic curb flush with the sheetrock that's on the bathroom side of the jamb and curb.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:38 PM   #28
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Here's a pic of what I mean. You can see the row of 3x12 bullnose outside the jamb. It's inline with the curb BN.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:48 PM   #29
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Davy, do you have a better picture of the curb in your photo? What I see is cutoff.

EDIT: I was thinking of using a Schluter Satin Nickel finish bullnose tile trim along the edge of tiling and it would stop just short of the drywall/cement board corners... and would go from ceiling and stop on top of the shower threshold (a single piece of marble).

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EDIT2:
Should the frameless glass door be centered on the curb or favor one side?
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:07 PM   #30
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This is the same shower but the tile I removed. This are tumbled marble but everything lines up the same way. I don't have a pic of the curb I installed.
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