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Old 10-09-2018, 08:18 AM   #16
ss3964spd
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Another consideration for replacing the DW: gives you an opportunity to add (or move) more outlets if needed, perhaps wire in some under cabinet lights, and ensure all outlets and switches are level with each other (this last to relieve OCD symptoms).
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:52 AM   #17
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...you mean CDO symptoms.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:01 PM   #18
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Where’s the outlet go?

The tile came in today. I knew 24x24 was big, but you don’t realize how big until you try to maneuver it to make a rip cut on a 7” Skil wet saw. I managed to get them cut to 24x18 to fit under the cabinets for the backsplash using the lessons learned from working with the 18x18 from the shower.
Anyway, being in the kitchen, there’s lots of outlets to cut around. Measure once, cut twice, right? I know I’ll need box extensions, but I recall reading somewhere that the outlet and switch tabs go over the wall surface. I couldn’t find anything on searches to back this up. All the drywall holes in the house are big enough that the tabs clear the holes. Before I nibble the tile around the cut outs (only 6 more cutouts to go!), do you mount the tabs over the tile, or cut around them? The tile is just propped up by the wall at the moment.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:45 PM   #19
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Switches and receptacles come with "plaster ears" that extend outside of the footprint of the box. The optimal installation is cut the finish wall material tight to the outside of the box, and then install the devices with the plaster ears over the finish wall material.

When adding a new wall finish, you can do this by killing power to the devices, verifying power is killed, removing the screws holding the device in, tilting the device so its projection on the wall fits within the perimeter of the box, installing the new wall finish, and then reinstalling the device.

If your holes are too large, then box extensions may have longer ears that can catch the face of the finish wall material. Or you can use a rigid type box extension along with spacers behind the device screws to bring the device yoke in plane with the new wall finish.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:16 PM   #20
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Thanks Wayne. That’s what I thought, but figured it wouldn’t hurt to get some other input.
Turn off the power? Where’s the fun in that? If it don’t bite, it’s not worth the fight.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:31 PM   #21
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This is why I'm eliminating all the wall outlets along the backsplash in my remodel. Nothing will mar my perfect tile job.
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:58 PM   #22
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No outlets at all? Do you have surface mounted electrical outlets? We have an assortment of appliances that come and go depending on what’s cooking. Coffee machine is always plugged in. Toaster, blender, waffle iron, crock pot... we got a whole closet full of kitchen appliances. I may add more outlets.
A flat uninterrupted backsplash surface may look nice and clean, but for our tiny kitchen, it just wouldn’t work. I think by code here there has to be an outlet per some footage of counter space in a kitchen.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:02 PM   #23
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Some designers like the outlet strips under the upper cabinets. Makes the tiling easier for sure.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:14 PM   #24
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Davy's got it. We're installing Legrand's Adorne system. It includes outlets, lighting and switches tucked up under the cabinets. And I don't have to try to cut glass mosaic neatly around it because it goes in after the tile.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:33 PM   #25
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I took a look at those; very interesting idea. I’ve only seen the ones that point straight down. They also make some very attractive outlet configurations. Alas, I’m far enough along, that redoing the electrical is not an option at this point.

I did get the back splash tiles up today (well all except for one; I ran out of mortar and was too lazy to mix up another batch). Used ultraflex LFT mixed on the soft side. I recalled from the floor experience that it takes a lot of “oomph” to set the large tiles, and with them being 18x24 and having to reach over the counter to set them; I opted for a softer mix. Backbuttered the mortar in to the wall and burned it into the tile. Used 1/2” square notch to meter it onto the tile.
Wound up with probably in the 75% coverage range with 3/16”-ish thick behind the tiles. Since it’s on the backsplash and not a regularly wet area nor will anyone be walking on them; I decided not to play with it much more. Getting them flat and in plane on the wall with the asst chops and divots from removing the old tile was a bit of a task; thicker in some spots and thinner in others. Since these a very flat, high polish tiles; I wanted the reflection to be even when looking from tile to adjacent tile.
Once I get the remaining tile in and finish the electrical box extensions, I’ll post a pic.
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Old 10-28-2018, 07:36 PM   #26
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If I remember correctly, you need a receptacle every 4' and there must be at least 2 separate 20A circuits that are GFCI protected.
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Old 10-28-2018, 08:21 PM   #27
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Sounds about right. They’re certainly within 4’ of each other (I wish they weren’t, that would mean we’d have more counter space) and are on 2 separate circuits. Not GFI’d, but that’s an easy add with either a GFI outlet at the beginning of the chain, or a GFI breaker. I think it may have to be GFI only if within a certain distance from a sink. I’ll have to check, but probably not a bad idea in a kitchen to update anyway.
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:38 AM   #28
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I just read the 2017 NEC recently (now THERE'S some exciting prose), and there are a jillion rules about kitchens. Fortunately, if you aren't changing anything, you're grandfathered with whatever you have now. Which is handy, because I've heard refrigerator compressor motors love to trip GFCIs.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:23 PM   #29
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The NEC is even more fun to read than the ANSI standards, Wendy, 'specially if you're looking for something specific.

I would personally not install a GFCI circuit for a refrigerator regardless the whims of the NEC. Just won't do it.

While the GFCI outlets have improved greatly in the past 30 years, I find them still to be oversensitive to inductive loads and wouldn't want my refrigerator, nor yours, connected to one. The GFCI breakers have always been better in that regard, but I wouldn't have one of those on my refrigerator circuit either.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:56 PM   #30
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For what it's worth, I have two devices with inductive loads (compressor/electrical motors) on GFCI devices and never had a problem. The inrush current hasn't tripped the breaker/outlet device once in over six years. One device is a whole-house dehumidifier supplied by a GFCI breaker (Square D QO), the other one is a dishwasher fed by a GFCI outlet (Hubble brand from Lowe's).

I like wall outlets better over the under-cabinet ones, personally. Just a preference. And in my view you can't have enough outlets around the countertop area. Best to pull an additional circuit or two beyond the NEC requirement to avoid nuisance trips with power hungry devices.

Having said all of this, Jeff is happily past that point, it seems.
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