60 year old bathroom re-model

[Mirage2521]

Hey Guys, Awsome forum! It's amazing how helpful and friendly you guys are. I guess it's time for me to start my thread. To make a long story short I bought my parents house because it needed tons of work and that was the only way they would let me do it for them.

The main bath was a mortar over mesh cave, every wall was 3-4 inches of concrete including the ceiling. The roof over the room had leaked for years and the water penetrated the concrete and causes the metal mesh to expand and crack and fall. So after the hardest demo I have ever attempted it is time to re-mod. Keep in mind that I have zero tile experience but I am pretty handy. I have the floor tiled (concrete slab) and it is time to install that tub.

My intent is to use a Kohler Devonshire tub and do a tile surround. I am purchasing and setting the tub next week. I plan on setting the tub in a pan of something to support it. Quickcrete or foam. My first of many questions is

1. Is there anything special I need to think about while placing and installing tub in regard to the tile surround? Spacing issues and so on.

2.I assume it should be flush against the studs.

3. Should I install a vapor barrier before tub goes in?

Thanks for reading, I am sure there will be weeks of simplistic questions to follow.

Nick

[Houston Remodeler]

Welcome Nick,

1- The part of the tub that the tile sets over (not on) should be as level as possible. That makes tiling easier. Some tubs have a dip in the center for drainage. They are also not the finest hand crafted molded products in the world and may not be perfectly square or flat. Do the best you can and make up the difference with your tile layout. Follow the Kohler guidelines for supporting framing and securing it to the walls. I like foam to support it, insulate and reduce noise. Weight the tub with something soft; 2 bags of thinset works just nicely, then foam underneath the tub using the blue can. Its denser and holds better. Use an extension tub if you need to.

2 - see #1

3 - no, it overlaps the tub lip, if that is part of your waterproofing process and you are not using a surface applied waterproofing such as hydroban or kerdi.

[Mirage2521]

As prmoised...more simple questions. This one is concerning the concrete backing board to sheetrock (greenboard) joint. It seems to me I would want the two to be the same thickness and allow the bullnose to slightly overlap the greenboard just to make it look good. How should this marriage of 2 different materials be accomplished..

1. I am assuming that the sheet rock and backerboard (durarock or whatever I end up with) should be the same thickness to that they are on the same plane at the joint.

2. Should I be planning for a little overlap of tile from backer board over sheetrock to cover the joint?

Thanks guys, I have found dozens of websites that cover tiling but none of them answer the most simple of questions.

[Houston Remodeler]

Nick,

1 - yes

2 - yes

Simple enough? Sounds like you are on the right track. What is your waterproofing method of choice? backerboard, thinset and tile are not waterproof.

[Mirage2521]

My intent was to use some thick poly sheeting. The back wall(longwall) of the tub is a shared wall, my kitchen is on the other side of it so I have R19 insulation between the studs for sounds proofing. I was going to cover studs and insulation with poly sheeting and then overlap tub lip with sheeting as per your instructions. Then place backerboard on top of poly. Will this work?

Thanks so much for taking the time to help!

[Houston Remodeler]

Yes, this is an accepted way to accomplish the task. Be sure to get a good seal at the tub lip with the poly sheeting. 100% silicone works well.

I prefer surface applied waterproofing like Hydroban or Kerdi. Have you looked into those methods?

[Mirage2521]

I have read just a little about them but did not think they would be appropiate for my project due to the insulation between the studs......would it work on the paper backing of the insulation?

BTW, I went and looked at your gallery on your website.....WOW!

[Houston Remodeler]

We use kerdi with insulation all the time. All you have to do is get insulation with no kraft paper on it, or put some nice knife slits in the insulation (on exterior walls only) so that you don't have the dreaded "moisture sandwich". You'd have to do the same if you used poly sheeting.

[Mirage2521]

This is an interior wall...how important is it in that case? The insulation is only for sound proofing. I had some extra R19 with paper so I used it to deaden noise between kitchen and bathroom

[Houston Remodeler]

no problem as it can breathe from the other side and the humidity levels will be the same on both sides.

[dhagin]

I'll have to disagree with Paul, the problem is not with 'the other side'. The problem is with moisture trapped between insulation facing and tile moisture-proofing/waterproofing. On interior walls, all insulation should be unfaced. Vapor pressure in bathrooms during shower use will be much higher than the other side of the wall typically, forcing water vapor thru all the walls.

[Houston Remodeler]

Dana,

You do have a point. And I think its worth discussing. I don't mind if this get hijacked. I don't think in this particular case there is anything to worry about. In a steam shower, or totally enclosed shower I would consider it. I have demo'ed interior walls that have had facing on one side and have yet to see any signs of water or mold, and this is Houston.

Of course the facing can always be scored and disabled anyway. It can't hurt.

[Mirage2521]

It sounds as if tearing the majority of the paper off would be a good idea....so, that's what I will do.

I frequent I lot of forums, and this one is without a doubt the most informative and helpfull I have ever visited.

[Mirage2521]

On another subject...lol After reading here I realized the I screwed up on my toilet flange. It is sitting flat on my concrete slab and I tiled around it. So the top of the flange is maybe 3\16 below the surface of the tile. How can I remedy this. I have found some spacers that claim to be for this very issue. What do you guys reccomend?

[bbcamp]

Short of tearing into your slab and raising the flange, I say the flange extenders you found are the way to go. I recommend using some silicone caulk between each extender to bond it to the original flange and to each other.

You can stack multiple spacers. Try to get the top of the flange to about 1/4 to 3/8" above the tile. Use fewer, but thicker spacers rather than a whole stack of thin ones. Less chance for leaks, etc.