Half bath to full bath conversion project

[pmoe]

Hello all,

Been lurking for a few months while I worked on my bathroom, but now I'm close to being ready to tile. This will be my first tile job.

I'll give as many painstaking details as I can, cause I know ya'll love 'em.

The bathroom was a half bath before I bought the place. I gutted - and I mean *really* gutted - it all. All cabinets, fixtures, floor, subfloor, floor joists - gone. Most of the ceiling joists - gone. The room had been termite food for a period of years and had substantial damage. As well, some previous owner thought it was a good idea to saw a floor joist in two to make room for DWV and a HVAC duct.

More details:

The room was an old porch walled up many years to make a room. Not sure when, but it was plaster and lathe.

The house is brick on brick construction, with a poured foundation.

The bathroom has bandboard 2x10s around the perimeter, sitting on two concrete piers about 30" off the dirt floor below. The room is approximately 10' x 5.5'.

Because of the termite damage, the bandboards got new 2x10s. These were either sistered on, or replaced existing boards that were too damaged to use.

There are 5 new 2x10x10 joists in the space. They are all sitting in joist hangers. They are all 16" OC, except for one small offset, which was done to accomodate a 3" toilet drain.

There is no bracing between the joists, unless you count the few boards thrown in by the plumbers to hang their pipes on.

The joist attached to the exterior of the house is held in place with Tapcons.

The subfloor is 3/4" Sturd-I-Floor OSB, nailed (probably 8D nails) and glued (with Senco subfloor adhesive) in place.

Deflecto calculator sez:

Thank you for using the John Bridge Forums Deflect-O-Lator :-)

For joists that are SYP or Douglas Fir, in good condition, 9.25 inches tall, 1.5 inches wide, 16 inches on center, and 10 feet long between supports, the deflection calculated is 0.140 inches.

This translates to a deflection of L / 857.

Since the maximum deflection for tile is L / 360, and for natural stone is L / 720, your floor is rated for Ceramic tile or Natural stone, Congratulations!

My plan is to use 1/2" Hardie backer and a 1/4" Merola pennyround tile to finish the job.

As I said, I've never tiled before, but here are some samples of the conflicting advice I've gotten thus far.

a) it doesn't matter whether you nail or screw in the subfloor
b) you should always screw in the subfloor

a) there is no need to adhere the CBU to the subfloor
b) you should adhere the CBU to the subfloor with poly glue

a) you can just use roofing nails to affix the CBU
b) you should screw down the CBU

a) I prefer the premixed adhesive
b) I always mix my own

So I'm already confused.



My questions thus far:

1) Does the joist attached the house need any additional bracing underneath it?

2) Do I need any bracing between the joists?

3) Any clarifications on the conflicting advice above?

4) Lastly, my plumbing rough in is for a clawfoot tub with new decorative supply and D/W/O lines. My rough in drain + escutcheon looks like the attached pic.

I was thinking that the drain should be up higher, so the escutcheon will sit on the finished floor. I talked to the plumber about this and he thinks the rough in is correct. From what I gathered, he thinks the escutcheon should sit on the subfloor and the tile will go up to the perimeter of the escutcheon. I think that's going to look cruddy. Am I missing something?

[gueuzeman]

Patrick-

A few answers:
a) it doesn't matter whether you nail or screw in the subfloor
b) you should always screw in the subfloor
A

a) there is no need to adhere the CBU to the subfloor
b) you should adhere the CBU to the subfloor with poly glue
Neither- use thinset as per mfgrs. instructions

a) you can just use roofing nails to affix the CBU
b) you should screw down the CBU
Either, bothe are correctg and approved. I use nailes (roofing)

a) I prefer the premixed adhesive
b) I always mix my own
B

1) Does the joist attached the house need any additional bracing underneath it? Better people to tell you that than I

2) Do I need any bracing between the joists?See above.

3) Any clarifications on the conflicting advice above?

4) Lastly, my plumbing rough in is for a clawfoot tub with new decorative supply and D/W/O lines. My rough in drain + escutcheon looks like the attached pic.
Clawfoot drain escutions stink! you are looking good with the heoight, but will the cover allow enough room for the nut to tighten and still let the cover rest on the floor? I've normally seen them recessed, but either way you need to cut the tile to within a 1/16" to get the escution to cover. I have had to go back and cut a few of them in tighter, because at 1/8" from the pipe it didn't cover.


Penny rounds are cool!

gueuze

[pmoe]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Clawfoot drain escutions stink! you are looking good with the heoight, but will the cover allow enough room for the nut to tighten and still let the cover rest on the floor? I've normally seen them recessed, but either way you need to cut the tile to within a 1/16" to get the escution to cover. I have had to go back and cut a few of them in tighter, because at 1/8" from the pipe it didn't cover.

Any chance you or someone on here could post a few pix? I'm having a heck of a time wrapping my brain around how this should look.

[gueuzeman]

Well, this is recessed into the floor, and isn't mosaic tile. Couldn't find a pic of a mosaic one, thought I had one.

Anyway, the fingers on that nut is what seals the 2 pipes together, and the measure of these ears is only 1/8" smaller than the escutcheon, which is 1/16" per side, which means you need to be closer than that.

As Bill and Ted would say, "That's bogus, dude!"

Do you have a plumber to consult? A plumbing showroom? one guy told me to cut the ears off, that he could get it tight enough with the pliers as it's only a drain, not pressurized. Dunno.

gueuze

[mrjetskey]

A drain doesnt have any pressure on it most of the time,that said The few drains I have replaced are snug not pipe wrench tight,heck on most bathtubs you can only hand tighten the drains at the slip joint,and that seems to be more than adequate.When all else fails read the directions.There is at least 3 correct ways to do every job,choose the one that applies to youJMHO>Marvin

[gueuzeman]

Mr. jetski- read the directions, been there, there are no directions. The clawfoot tub people are heinous, evil, parasites. But I mean that in a good way.

gueuze

[pmoe]

Mr. jetski- read the directions, been there, there are no directions.

Bingo. I ordered a full kit and got boxes and boxes of stuff, but no instructions or parts diagram to speak of.

[pmoe]

Do you have a plumber to consult? A plumbing showroom? one guy told me to cut the ears off, that he could get it tight enough with the pliers as it's only a drain, not pressurized. Dunno.

I asked the plumber about it, and he thought that what they had done was correct.

Thanks for the pic. It seems like it would be easier to hook up the drain line if the threads were above the tile, though. Am I missing something, or wouldn't the escutcheon cover the PVC?

[mrjetskey]

if you cut ears off you still need a 1/8" on each side to get pliers or needle nose large version in there, i like the cover sitting up on tile,not tile up to it, you dont tile up to side of a commode why tile up to side of the cover??if all else fails get a larger cover??I have seen them sometimes at big orange or lowelys ,hey you gotta do what looks good to you ,if not it will bug you until you either fix it correctly to your way of wanting it or you move!!good luck ,i wasnt trying to be smart butt by saying read directions, sometimes on rare occasions when you can find them and they were written in english, not chinese translated to italian,translated to english.they can help!!jmho>Marvin

[pmoe]

Quick questions -

Is my 3/4" OSB Sturd-I-Floor sufficient?

For a person who has never tiled before, do you think it would be easier to work with Ditra vs. Hardie backer (or another CBU)? I already have purchased the Hardie, but I could return it easily.

[gueuzeman]

1/4" hardie on the floor will give you a pretty smoothh surface to work on, it's my normal choice for small mosaics. You do need to mix the thinset a little bit looser as it is thirsty stuff, and can skin over your mortar pretty quick.

3/4" sturdi floor is good as lond as your joists give you enough strength. Did you run the numbers in the deflecto?

gueuze

EDIT- no ditra for small mosaics, I believe 3 or 4" is their recommended smallest tile size.

[pmoe]

Did you run the numbers in the deflecto?

Yup, check out my original post.

Good to know on the Ditra. One more decision I won't have to make! In my various reading about it, I had not seen the caveat about small tile.

[bbcamp]

2x2 is Schluter's minimun requirement on Ditra.

[pmoe]

1/4" hardie on the floor will give you a pretty smoothh surface to work on, it's my normal choice for small mosaics.

I was doing the unthinkable last night and reading the instructions on Hardie's website and saw that they normally recommend 1/4" for floors. I have already purchased (but not picked up) 1/2". Should I return it? I assume the 1/4" is a bit easier to work with.

My plumbing was put in with the idea of 1/2" CBU, but I think the only thing that would be affected at this point is the placement of the WC flange.

Also, does a small mosaic tile give you more options w.r.t. where you start tiling? The tiles are only 3/4", so it seems like trying to get things centered in the room would be less crucial.

[Deckert]

I would return it. The 1/4" is a lot easier to lug around and cut/install than 1/2". Only use 1/2" on the floor if you want to gain some extra height to meet up to an adjoining floor surface.