Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Master Bath Remodel

Hi everyone,

I am new here. Redoing my master bath. The original install was a mortar bed and ceramic tile. I have chiseled it out to get to studs and will be installing Hardi-backer and using Schluter Kerdi for the walls and I bought a Kerdi drain and Kerdi shower pan for the floor. The old floor was a mortar bed too and underneath it was tar -- I guess they used that as water proofing over roofing felt/paper. Couple of questions:

1. On the floor, do I need to scrape/sand the tar off or can I add self-leveling mix to ensure a level floor before installing the Kerdi shower pan? I have never scraped tar off of anything and it seems like it will be a lot of work, but I can do that if necessary.

2. I am lost on the brand/type of mortar to use for the Kerdi on the walls and then the type I will use to install the new tile over the Kerdi. I am installing tumbled travertine/limestone tiles -- 6 inch square in Noche color. The big box stores are close to me and stock the usual Mapei and Custom Building Products thin sets. I actually bought a couple of bags of each brand in unmodified versions thinking this would work for both the install of Kerdi onto the backer board and floor & drain and the installation of the new tumbled Limestone onto the Kerdi.

Schluter says to only use unmodified thin set mortar for everything, but HD recommended the Granite and Marble mortar over Kerdi to install the Limestone, but this is a modified thin-set. I have read on here that some folks say modified is OK and others say it is not OK. Also, what is wrong with the cheaper mortars available in the box stores? I don't mean this to sound like a dumb question, but the bags both meet the ANSI specifications Schluter suggests. I am OK buying whatever I need to buy to do this job right, but the other kinds of Mortar are not readily available to me and I would like to be able to buy more quickly if I need it or take back unused amounts if I get too much.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-24-2012, 10:13 PM   #2
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,162
Welcome, Scott.

1. You've entered no geographic location into your User Profile, so I just gotta guess you're in California and have a "hot mop" shower pan. If so, you're gonna need to remove it completely. You also don't indicate what kind of subfloor you have under the "tar," but whatever it is needs to be well cleaned before you can install anything but another mud bed. No SLC manufacturer is gonna allow the use of their product over tar.

Tell us what you've got there and a photo or two would help, also.

2. You are correct that any thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.1 is suitable for your Kerdi applications, but they're not all created equal. The really cheap unmodified mortars tend to be a good bit more difficult to work with and achieve the advertised values. But if you can do that, yes, they will adhere adequately for anything you mentioned.

But a good quality dry-set (un-modified) mortar will be a good deal easier to work with and get the bond you're looking for.

And some of the modified mortars will work quite well with the Schluter products, you just don't get a manufacturer's warranty.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:53 PM   #3
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Thanks, CX...you guessed right -- I live in Southern OC. I updated my Profile.

OK...sounds like I need to remove the floor -- I figured as much, but was hoping I would not or that there would be a workaround...now I need to read up on how to do that -- never removed tar before.

Still not sure what to do about mortar -- maybe order in some of the better quality or try and find a source locally -- there a re a lot of wholesale tile dealers in the area. What is the consensus of what to use to install Kerdi on the Hardibacker and to install the limestone on the Kerdi?

I will try and get some pics up in the next day or so as I work through this build. This is a great site recommended to me on another forum.

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,862
A quality non modified thinset is the preferred thinset. Ditraset and Laticrete 317 keep the Schluter warranty.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 02:23 PM   #5
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Thanks! I assume to remove the tar and paper shower pan I could cut it with a utility knife or something and then pry up under an edge? I think I read somewhere that they are 7 layers thick of felt and tar. Any other suggestions to get the old floor out? Also, is it OK to just put Cement backer board over the studs and blocking at the bottom of the shower or do I need to remove the blocking and install new?

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 02:54 PM   #6
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,162
Brute force is likely the ticket to removing the hot-mop. I think three or four layers is the minimum for those things, but a lot depends upon who did the installation.

As for the blocking, it's difficult to say. I'll point out again that photos might be helpful. I can't see your house from here even if I stand on Paul's chair.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #7
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,862
The easiest way to remove ht mop is to have someone else do it.

And my chair swivels. Don't want ol' CX getting up there.

Pics please.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 05:12 PM   #8
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
OK...getting it up was not too bad...now I have to remove the debris. The floor is just chip-board, but from what I can tell it is in good condition -- I was careful removing the tar paper and there was just loose sand/mortar in the bottom. Here are some pics -- looks like they put tar on the blocking and 2X before embedding the first layer of felt, which would make sense. I assume I could just install the Cement board over this. Debating on taking out the wood curb and using the Schluter one or leaving as is and install cement board over it.

Thanks for all of your help...this forum is awesome.

Scot
Attached Images
    
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 05:18 PM   #9
jondon
Hershey Pennsylvania Tile Contractor
 
jondon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lebanon County Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via AIM to jondon
Hey Scot, pics are great...lol Looks like you are ready to construct a new shower. As for the curb if it is in sound condition no reason you can't put ceement board over it if you are keeping the same footprint. So you are doing a kerdi shower?
__________________

Jon Donmoyer

JD Tile

CTEF Certified Installer #825

Custom Tile Installation in Hershey & surrounding areas

Serving Dauphin, Lebanon, Berks, Chester, & Montgomery Counties PA
jondon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 05:24 PM   #10
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Thanks...yes, doing a Kerdi shower. I bought the kit and was thinking I could sell the unused parts of the kit. The wood and blocking appears to be sound. I have never had any leaks in the old shower and it was constructed new around 96.

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 10:21 AM   #11
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Is Laticrete 272 a good unmodified thinset? I can get that readily available and the dealer recommended it over 317 for Kerdi install.

Thanks
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 10:23 AM   #12
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,162
Yes, the 272 is fine for your application.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #13
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
Thanks, CX. One other question -- should I install 1/2 or 3/4 inch ply over the original OSB floor before installing the shower tray? I bought a bag of self-leveling cement to ensure a perfectly flat and level floor and was thinking it should be over plywood.

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 03:16 PM   #14
Masterbathtiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
Posts: 25
In the last photo above, there is a 1/2-1 inch gap or so between the tub and the tub flange. Also, the tub flange is not flush with the 2x4 frame. I was going to add another 2x to the top of the frame and then a small piece of cement backer board to get it flush with the flange. I was thinking I would cut my 6 inch tiles in half and have a 3 inch line of tiles all around the inside of the tub. Does this sound like it would work?

Thanks

Scot
__________________
Scot
Masterbathtiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 06:57 PM   #15
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,162
You need to consult the CBU manufacturer to determine what is a suitable substrate for their product.

If you elect to add plywood, nominal half-inch should be adequate.

Not sure I understand the tub question, 'specially this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot
there is a 1/2-1 inch gap or so between the tub and the tub flange
Will there be a tub/shower or only a tub?
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
master bath remodel the juggler Tile Forum/Advice Board 33 01-03-2012 12:28 PM
Master Bath Remodel b19 Tile Forum/Advice Board 20 08-22-2009 10:41 PM
master 1/2 bath remodel ssim1s Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 02-08-2009 05:08 PM
Master Bath Remodel JohnOA Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 02-01-2008 09:56 PM
Master bath remodel Tito Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 04-10-2003 08:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC