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Old 04-19-2019, 03:56 PM   #16
Johnny22
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Update: I finally got around to removing the glass panes, which weigh a ton and had to be very delicately cut out and removed. Probably something I would leave to a pro next time given the weight and delicate nature of that job.

But now the fun stuff, managed to open up the curb. Take a look at some pictures. What do you guys think? Some observations:

1. The liner did not wrap all the way around the curb, basically stopped on top

2. There were multiple nail holes throughout, presumably nailing the backer board (or whatever he used on top of the liner) so basically the liner was useless.

3. I cut the liner to expose the wood, it looks completely wet, let me know what you guys think.

4. Trying to figure out what material was used under the tiles, I have a close up of the label which is hard to read, but will try to figure it out.

5. The glass pane was secured on the bottom of the curb by a small metal bracket, which was drilled into the curb (picture attached of the nail hole). I assume that's okay? That nail obviously cuts right through the liner but what other way would you secure the glass into the curb?

All in all, time to remove the curbs and then the floor, then the walls... will keep you posted.
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Old 04-19-2019, 04:40 PM   #17
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It'd likely help if you'd add a geographic location to your User Profile, John.

I think that's most likely Certainteed's Diamondback, a Coated Glass Mat Water-Resistant Gypsum Backing Panel, ASTM C1178.

Not something I'd want in my shower and certainly not a suitable product for use on the curb of a traditionally built shower receptor.

But it appears you've already decided you've got a complete tear-out and replace situation on your hands, so all I can recommend is you carry on with phase one.

5. That is not OK. You do not want any mechanical fasteners penetrating the waterproofing membrane on any horizontal plane in a wet area. Period.

There are other ways to install glass panels in such applications.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:13 PM   #18
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A conventional shower construction will work to provide a reliable, leakless shower, but, IMHO, there are lots of better ways to build one. A surface applied, sheet membrane would be my first choice. This will make the entire shower enclosure waterPROOF versus water resistant. There are a bunch of companies that make the materials needed to do that. I've used Schluter stuff, but there are others out there now that have essentially copied their design. Schluter's stuff has been in use now for almost 30-years around the world, so there's a lot of history...IOW, it's not especially 'new', but there are a lot of people that don't take to new things in their careers.

To get an idea of how that type of system works, I think Schluter has the best videos. You can watch some of them, and at least decide if the method is for you or not...then, choose the manufacturer of the type more easily available to you where you live.

FWIW, building a shower isn't technically hard, but is very detail oriented...mess up one detail, and it will likely fail.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:45 PM   #19
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CX, I am located in Toronto Canada.

How would you recommend fastening the shower glass pane onto the curb without drilling through it?

Also do you think this shower can be saved without a complete tear out?

Thank you
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX, Post 17
It'd likely help if you'd add a geographic location to your User Profile, John.
There was a reason for the bold print there, John.

There are epoxies that are used effectively in that application, some used in conjunction with drilling only into the tile surface. Some applications permit the use of clear silicone sealants as the adhesive. I personally prefer to set fixed glass panes into the tile surface without any fasteners at all.

I would consider anything other than a complete removal and replacement to be a temporary repair. Something to keep the shower usable for a short time until a more convenient opportunity for replacement.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:55 AM   #21
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John, you'll see User CP in the dark blue bar above. You can add the info Cx mentioned.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:33 PM   #22
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John, you never want to drill through the waterproofing on a horizontal surface.

Unfortunately most glazing companies/installers will drill through the curb without a second thought. This is also what many glass enclosure manufacturers will specify in their documentation. They do this because their primary concern, above all else, is that the installation doesnt come loose and cause a panel to fall and injure someone. In other words, liability. As you have seen even just 3/8" thick glass panels are extremely heavy. Some are 1/2".

The installers and manufacturers are making the assumption they can stick enough silicone in the hole and around the fastener to seal the puncture. Unfortunately acheiving a true water tight seal this way is easier said then done and there is no way to know if it is actually water tight. Often it isnt. This is a big problem because curbs see a ton of water and are often the first to fail.

My shower enclosure instructions also called for drilling long stainless screws through the top of the curb. However I did not do this. I put a stop on my drill and drilled just shy of the depth of the tile. This makes a very shallow hole that does not penetrate the waterproofing. I then cut the screws down into little stubs to fit into these holes just shy of the bottom. I also masked off the tile around the perimeter area of the bracket with tape. I also roughened the bottom of the bracket with my dremel to give the epoxy some grab. Ultimately I used Laticrete Latipoxy 310 2-part tile and stone epoxy to bond the bracket to the tile on the curb. I also stuffed the hole with epoxy to epoxy the stubby screw in place. The primary direction of force on the bracket is horizontal and so these screws act as set pins to transfer those forces to the tile. This installation depends on the tile being properly bonded to the curb with quality setting materials in order to provide enough sheer strength. This is not something glass companies or glass enclosure manufacturers can rely on hence why they want you to drill into the structure to insure the bracket is secure.

I don't know if this is stronger or weaker then the reccomended installation. Mine has held strong so far for a couple of years now with my daughter frequently slamming the door.

Other methods involve installing a glass guide channel under the tile for the glass prior to tile installation. This method is better and stronger as it distributes the forces along a larger area, but it requires some planning.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:37 AM   #23
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THank you all for the replies. I have now done extensive destruction of the shower to get behind the walls.

As expected, fairly substantial water damage... please see pictures of the exterior wall / columns after I removed the insulation.

Do you folks think that this exterior sheating can be salvaged by cleaning with antimold type of products? Otherwise, it would require me to cut a hole in the side of the house, which has stecco and i suspect that's a massive job and will cost me a fortune.

Let me know your thoughts.. i don't mind replacing the interior studs, but the sheating would require stucco removal and it's a huge job.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:20 AM   #24
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Mine was much worse than yours when I removed the tile. Mine had been leaking for years. It has since dried no evidence of dry rot still structurally sound just stained. If you have no dry rot there is no need to replace any of the framing. I plan on spraying area with mold inhibitor before closing up walls just as a piece of mind measure.

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Old 04-28-2019, 10:51 AM   #25
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I'm not an expert on water damage but if it's solid, but just wet, then I think you can dry it out, have any mold treated and coat over it with a primer.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:23 AM   #26
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Poke all suspect lumber with a sharp screw driver and make sure there are no soft spots. You can kill mold with a 1:10 bleach/water mix in a spray bottle. Once the lumber dries and gets under 20% moisture content mold has a hard time growing. Thats why fans and heat lamps are used in a flood damaged house. Getting lumber back under 20% can take a while depending on your humidity and temperature.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
Why would you do that, Donald?

If you were planning to build a traditional shower receptor, wouldn't it make more sense to use a traditional pan liner rather than a direct bonded waterproofing membrane?

And what would be the purpose of the "cementboard" on the floor?
I was thinking more of angled walls and angled curbs, where traditional pan liner would fold with difficulty. As for the cementboard: It would be on the wall dropped tight to the floor.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:37 PM   #28
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Kerdi Waterproofing Membrane

Folks, thanks in advance for your responses.

I'm trying to build a shower utilizing as much Kerdi product as possible. I don't think I'll be able to use the pre-fab tray, because my shower dimensions just don't fit their standard sizes.

So assuming I do a mud-pan, can I just apply waterproofing membrane right on top of it (basically the same way you would do over the prefabricated foam pan)? This would avoid having a liner then having to do more mud.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:41 PM   #29
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You can cut their trays to fit your dimensions....do a search to find out the details.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:04 PM   #30
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To answer your original question, yes. It is cheaper, and gets you a pan of the perfect size.
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