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Old 04-07-2019, 08:33 PM   #31
Opus4
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I'm curious: how would it be too small? It reduces the width of the wall between the shower and the toilet so that actually gives a couple more inches of space, and the other sides are just thin glass too.

I did a layout similar to yours in a room 6'4" x 7'5". (I think my 6'4" gives me an extra foot for the shower/toilet spacing.) The shower was 43" wide from wall to toilet, 39" out from the other wall to where you are thinking of putting the shower door, and with the corner cut off like you are thinking of doing.

Maybe the key is that it is a custom glass enclosure, so a glass company came in, measured, then made glass panels to fit. The only screw points are where the panels are attached to the walls; they just sit w/sealant on the curb. The room looks bigger w/o that solid wall in the middle of it too.

I hope this doesn't sound like an argument; just offering a point of view. And, again, I'm no pro. I mostly just read and learn from others posting on this forum!
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:47 AM   #32
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Yeah, if the plumbing were in one of the full walls then you would have and an L shaped curb or still have the corner cut off. It would give you more elbow room since the glass would be in the middle of the curb and the glass would make it look more wide open. Many times in tight bathrooms like this, instead of making the curb out of 3-2x4's laid flat, We rip a 2x6 about 4 1/2 inches wide and stand it on it's edge. The narrower curb finishes out less than 4 inches which gives you more foot room.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:51 AM   #33
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Like Andy, I'd opt for the glass instead if you can move the plumbing. In your installation, Lenny, every inch counts. The finished wall will be something close to 5" thick, while the glass will be 3/8", so you can pick up 4.5 inches, ish, for either the toilet or the shower, or split the difference between the two. If you then tiled the entire back wall the space will look larger. IMO, of course.

Is too bad that HVAC duct is there behind the toilet, because a wall hung toilet would save you 6 or 7 inches.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:41 PM   #34
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All great ideas. I wish I had them earlier in the planning process. Just so we are on the same page, do the attached models reflect what you mean about the glass shower?

I don't want to come off as the "know-it-all so why am I even asking" type. Just trying to play devils advocate to fully get into the pro's/con's.

Recessed toilet: My brief research is that they are pretty expensive, tough to fit in a 2x4 wall, and I am not a believer in their methods to tie into water drains (all rubber slip on connections from what I read) So I have pretty much ruled it out. If this was a "forever mine home" maybe.

Glass shower: totally agree with gaining an extra few inches on either side, but I think that corner missing in that orientation is much more significant than the original layout.

Overall, great ideas, but so far I think staying the course (for simplicity) and cost wise, those few inches might not be worth it. Still worth thinking about while I take a few days break from progress.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:37 AM   #35
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Completely agree on clipping that corner for the shower, Lenny, someone is going to have a bruised bum otherwise.

The wall hung - yeah, more expensive than a typical ~200.00 jon, but if gaining inches is a priority they do the job, and if one intended to use a more up-market floor mount, Toto Aquia for instance, then the cost differential isn't as severe. They've been around for a long time, longer in Europe, the design is time tested.

I'm doing my own master bathroom now and many of the design decisions are being driven by resale value, and oh wow factor.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #36
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I think this attachment officially rules out the in wall tank

My wall space in the toilet area likely *might* work if I alter the studs, but there is a vent pipe that would be tricky to move. At least my wallet will be happy. And if I were to sell the house, this isn't really an area where wall mount toilets are necessary to keep up with the neighbors.

My target budget was around $3000 for the total bathroom remodel. So far I am on track to still be in that ballpark.

The remaining consideration is the all glass wall shower...
1) Is that corner in a worse spot than before, negating the added few inches.
2) Is the extra cost worth it? I can't seem to find a reliable price to expect for custom glass walls.
3) Is the extra labor alone worth it?

I can easily make the rationalization for #3, it really isn't that much more labor/materials cost in that regard. #1 may or may not be bad, anyone experience both cut corner locations, and how they impact perceived space? And #2, still need a rough/realistic price to determine.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:30 AM   #37
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Yea, I noted the HVAC duct earlier - it does present a challenge. I had the same issue but rerouting it was fairly straight forward, if time consuming. Nevertheless, anything you do to set yours apart from the neighbors in a positive way helps resale, and is more functional and pleasant for you while you're there.

Regarding the glass, I'm hard pressed to imagine anyone walking into that small space and thinking "I wish that wall was solid". But just my opinion, natch.

Not sure I understand #1. But referring back to an earlier drawing, showing 18" to the vanity with the 90* corner and 24" with the clipped corner, I honestly don't see how you could NOT do the clipped corner. I mean, of the 18", 2 or 3 will be space between the front of one's body and the front of the vanity, another 12", perhaps more, will be one's actual body, leaving a scant 3 or 4 inches at best. Bend over while brushing teeth? Anyway, if the numbers are real, picking up 6" will be a massive gain. Unless I'm totally missing something in the drawings.

BTW, are you having this inspected? I ask because here in Fairfax code requires at least 24" of free space in front of the toilet. Not sure if it's the same where you are in Md.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:45 PM   #38
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In regards to #1, I totally agree with the 18" vs 24" after I mocked up some cardboard, so the corner will be clipped. It is my intuition that having the corner clipped on the shower head/controls side will be less invasive to the user than having the corner clipped opposite the controls/head. That would be my "argument" against going glass and moving the shower supply plumbing. Just curious if anyone had any experience to back up my intuition.

That is not an HVAC duct, it is an unused b-vent (after converting to high efficiency, direct vent appliances). It will eventually be removed.

The plumbing vent on the other hand must be in that specific wall. There is a truss on top of the other wall that I refuse to cut through. As long as the drain vent stack is in the current wall, it practically eliminates the possibility of a wall mount toilet.

In regards to code, the original bathroom/layout did not meet many of the space requirements (except for the 30" minimum shower size). I am just trying to make it more functional than originally designed, and the cut corner seems to be the answer.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:58 PM   #39
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The next dilemma was briefly brought up when CX caught the 2x3 stud wall construction for the shower plumbing. Here's some more details, and hopefully we can make this work.

The wall is a total of 24" long. I already planned to use sister'd 2x3's with the following spacing. 93" vertical span would give me an allowable .25" of deflection of the center (if I did the 93/360 correctly). I tested the furthest pair of 2x3's using a spring scale and clamps. At about 50-55 pounds of force applied to the center, at a point, I got 3/16" of movement.

If that does not sound good enough, I could shave one of the 2x3's and put some angle iron to beef it up (preferably on the drywall side, the side that is not inside the shower area). Attached is a diagram of the spacing.

The measurements are from centers of the sister'd studs (between studs). So the larger gap would actually be 10.5" of unsupported space between studs. And the smaller gap, 4" between studs.

Original construction was 2x3 single studs, spaced further apart (34" total wall length) and the subway tile seemed to hold up fine. I was hoping to use up to 6x18" tile (oriented horizontally).

Thoughts?
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:40 AM   #40
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I am getting ready for installing Ditra and the Wedi shower base. I currently have (was advised/sold) the following thinsets from a supplier:

Ditra-Set (ANSI A118.1)

And

Laticrete 4XLT (ASNI A118.4, A118.11, A118.15)

I was originally going to do TEC Superflex between Advantech subfloor and Ditra membrane, Bostik/Ditra-Set to lay tiles on top of Ditra. Well, the tile supplier didn't have All-Set, and the person helping me was new, and I didn't have a backup plan, so everything went sideways.

It looks like 4XLT is a no-no under Ditra. So what are my options, and are these bags good for ANYTHING? If not, I'll bring them back on my next trip to the tile place.

I am using 6x36 wood plank floor tile, and most likely 12x24 shower wall tile. 2x2 mosaics for the shower floor. It looks like I ended up with two mortars for setting tile, and nothing for setting ditra/Wedi.

Questions:
1) What is proven to work for: (bonus points if available at HD/lowes)
a) Ditra over Advantech
b) Wedi shower base over Advantech

2) Is either of the thinsets I currently have (Ditra-Set and Laticrete 4xlt) ideal for any part of this process (shower wall, floor, tiles on top of ditra)?
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:35 AM   #41
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Lenny, the Laticrete mortar is fine for installing the Ditra over the wood subfloor. You might wanna visit the Ditra website and review the installation instructions. For bonding anything to a wood subfloor with thinset mortar you must use a mortar meeting ANSI A118.11.

I'd also caution you that we have had reports of that Advantech subflooring having a waxy coating on the surface that can adversely affect bonding to it with thinset mortars. You might wanna check that and call Laticrete to get their opinion on using the 4XLT in that application.

The Ditra Set is fine for installing your tiles over the Ditra.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:27 PM   #42
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CX, I read two separate accounts on here that 4xlt doesn't bond well to the Ditra fleece on the bottom. It looks correct on paper, but similar searches reveal Versabond/flexbond (even better TEC superflex but I couldn't get my hands on it) is what people generally use often.

Also I tihnk you said not to use any large tile thinsets to bond ditra to a floor:
https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...=114102&page=2

I am tempted to just use the 4xlt, but I don't want to do this twice.

Also Wedi said to use:
"Any thinset of the ANSI 118.4 and 118.3 and 118. 15 class are ok from wedi’s perspective"

Does that mean it must be all 3 types? or any one of the 3? Flexbond is 118.4 and 118.11
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:38 PM   #43
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I'm currently leaning towards the Mapei offering from Lowes, listed by schluter for Ditra. (considered Versabond, and Flexbond also)

Anyone have any input for the Wedi shower base or am I over thinking this?

The wedi installation instructions say 118.4 thinset, and to think of it as a large tile, so once I get the Mapei for Ditra, Ill have Laticrete 4XLT, Mapei Ultraflex 2, and Ditra Set to choose from.
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:47 PM   #44
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Lenny, some of the LHT mortars have larger aggregate and I would not wanna use them to bond any membrane to a backing material. Some of our regulars have said they do use one or another of such mortars for that application, so you're mostly on your own there.

I have used 4XLT but not for bonding Ditra. Can't testify first hand on that.

If you have access to Home Depot get you some VersaBond or FlexBond. I know for sure either of those will work just fine. Use the same mortar to set your Wedi shower base.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:39 PM   #45
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And the floor is not perfectly flat... I should have caught this sooner.

Attached is a "heat map" of the level of the floor. It is a bit crude and exaggerated to be on the safe side. Top left corner is the worst, bottom left isn't as bad. Green area is perfectly flat. Light red is a maximum of 1/4" lower than green, dark red is a maximum of 1/2" lower than green. Each box is roughly 6"x6". Looks like I only need to level/flatten half of the floor, the red portions, which is at most a 3ft by 6ft area.

For example a level spanning the entire floor diagonally from top left corner to bottom right, is flat to the floor in the green area, about a 1/4" gap max at the light red area, and up to 1/2" up off the floor at the darker red area.

So more questions...
1) Specific brands/lines of SLC (or other products/methods) for feather edge use over Advantech:
a) I read about success over advantech with Henry 542. It is not available at the local big boxes, could be ordered. The tile supplier might have this, I'll call and ask (along with any other recommended back up plans/products)
b) Lowes has Mapei "Self leveler plus", Seems to be OK over Advantech per Mapei. Anyone tried this stuff?

2) How does this affect the rest of the tile install? I still plan to use Ditra, and am leaning towards Mapei ultraflex 2 ("porcelain tile mortar") to attach the ditra to the subfloor. Does that combo still work on top of any SLC I would put down?
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