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Old 04-03-2019, 06:13 PM   #16
gslenk
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I thought I said I would replace the valve, but I didn't, and you read my mind. R&R of the plumbing wall wins, and I'll feel better about it, despite the extra work.

Here's my research/homework list if anyone wants to help me cheat. Bonus points for locally available stuff (but I know big box stores often don't stock the good stuff).

1) Lumber source for: Advantech 3/4", 2x3 studs, also drywall if possible.
Locally, Advantech lists: HD, Lowes, 84 Lumber, "JF johnson Lumber Co"
They are all about the same distance from me, does it matter which?

2) Drywall: Plan to use regular all around (outside shower, wedi inside), no green board. Is any other "special drywall" better?

3) Floor: 3/4" Advantech on top of existing 1/2" plywood subfloor. No glue between, nail or screw into existing 1/2" layer only or into joists?
Then on top of Advantech: Mapei ultraflex 2 (or versabond?), ditra, ditra set, 6"x36" tiles most likely.
Screw or nail fasteners? Any specific ones I can pick up locally?

4) Fixtures: Any recommended shower mixing valves for a 2x3 wall? So far, read about at a "Hansgrohe" or "Delta 1700 series" being the best, that's all.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny
Bonus points for locally available stuff
That sort of comment means a whole lot more if you add a geographic location [/b]to your User Profile[/b] so it appears pernanently, Lenny.

1. Matters not at all.

2. Nope.

3. Fasten your new subflooring into the joists. You're pretending the existing half-inch material is not even there as it should not be.

4. Why are you making a 2x3 wall? That's technically no suitable for a ceramic tile installation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:58 PM   #18
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Location updated. 2x3 wall because this is a teeny tiny bathroom. Existing wall was 2x3, had tile over drywall (or similar material). The whole demo started when I noticed tiles falling off the other 2x4 wall, then one thing lead to another...

To get around the 2x3 wall issue, I was thinking of spacing studs closer than the traditional 16" OC.

And yes, that 1 inch really matters (probably really doesn't) but the toilet is squeezed in a 25" wide area, and the shower will barely be 30" after tile.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:40 AM   #19
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Getting ready to lay the 3/4 advantech. Since I am ignoring the existing 1/2" layer, should I be gluing the advantech to it? PL in beads all over, or just over the joists, or titebond everywhere? Or no glue?
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:25 PM   #20
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No glue, Lenny. Again, pretend the unwanted first layer isn't even there except to increase the length of your fasteners appropriately. The fasteners must penetrate the joists by a minimum of 3/4ths of an inch.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:59 PM   #21
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Perfect. That's exactly what I am doing right now. Screws are #9 GRK, R4, 2.5" that gives ~1.25" penetration to the joist.

Also, I didn't catch this until now... Screw only into joists, or also into the field of the 1/2 layer below? Or am I still ignoring it, completely? If screwing the field, I'll need to get some shorter screws, or perhaps some nails instead.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:42 AM   #22
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The 1.25 penetration will be fine, Lenny. I tried .75 on my floor - some bit and held, some spun and didn't.

My OCD would tempt me to do the field also, but since you're ignoring the 1/2", it isn't necessary. Still, if you were to do it I'd use screws that are long enough so the shank below the head is smooth for about 1/2". You'd want the treads to bite into the 1/2" ply but not the 3/4". But with only 1/2" to bite into they might not hold at all.

Nails will be useless.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:43 AM   #23
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Got it, I'll keep that info in mind, I have a similar level of OCD

I am looking up specs, after the fact... and a little confused since I am not completely literate when it comes to nail vs screw specs. After a bit of searching, I think I am good, but home someone who knows better can chime in.

Advantech "glue and screw" instructions stated for 3/4" installation, use #8 wood screws (or 8d ring shank nails), and for greater than 3/4" use #9 screws (or 10d ring shank).

I used #9 GRK R4, 2.5" long, that have a root diameter of .112". When trying to compare shear/tensile strengths, to common nails I came up short on a strength comparison.

In short, did I use the right screw? Now would be the time to go bigger if I did not. Before all this, I assumed 16d common nails were the standard for this work.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #24
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Lenny, the standard "glue and screw" recommendation for attaching subflooring panels to floor joists is a ship that has previously sailed in your application.

It's difficult to compare screws and nails in most applications as they have substantially different shear and pull-out characteristics for similarly sized products. You have the Advantech recommendations for fastener types and should follow them to the extent possible. Forget the glue unless you're willing to remove the useless half-inch plywood from your joist tops.

And Common nails were never the standard for subfloor installation. Long as I can remember it had to be some sort of deformed shank nail in that application. Ring-shank in the case of the Advantec product manyfacturer's recommendation.

Given the situation you have, I'd opt for the #9 screws into the joists and I'd not consider trying to screw into the half-inch layer at all.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:38 PM   #25
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Well, that settles that. Subfloor can be checked off.

Now to frame out my funky shower... Any opinions on these two layouts?

In both examples, the shower wall (adjacent to toilet) is the plumbing wall.

1) Perfect rectangle:
a) Cramped path to toilet, gotta be careful when turning around for... taller people will have less room to put their legs to the side if the sink is too close (left side when sitting down point of view).
b) About 18" possibly a little less (after tile/drywall) in front of vanity + medicine cabinet, that is really cramped.

2) Chop a corner off (this area doesn't seem to make the shower smaller, hope y'all have some insights about this assumption)
a) Toilet feels roomier, easier to do a 180 to sit down, etc... also allows some elbow room.
b) Tall people can rotate a little more to the left if the vanity is in the way.
c) ~24" in front of vanity. That 6" difference really feels like a foot.

I'd prefer to do the angled corner, but not too sure whether it is a pipe dream, all the cons are in the construction:
*Tougher to make curb, might also be a tripping hazard, but doesn't seem to be too bad.
*Will likely have to outsource the curb topper if it is to be one piece, etc... *Glass door would also be a lot more expensive (still get a little over 22" entrance to shower)
*Might be more prone to water spilling out, but the floor will be tied into the curb (ditra etc) so not too worried. Not sure how I feel about a knee wall there, could be an option.

Hopefully the pictures explain better than me.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:23 PM   #26
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It's going to be a tight bathroom regardless but I would cut the curb on the 45 like your drawing shows. That 45 can be a full wall if you want. Is the bathroom door a pocket door?
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:05 PM   #27
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Yeah, tight is an understatement. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy, or taking on anything extreme.

If I were to build the entire wall, I think I would rather do a glass wall/door. Would also count as adding a wall after the fact.

Attached is a perspective view. I don't think I want to tile the toilet side of the shower wall. So that leaves me with an outside corner where wedi/tile meets drywall. I know Kerdi/Schluter makes a trim that embeds in the thinset, should work with wedi also, maybe do one on both sides for symmetry.

Anyone have any cool examples/inspiration of such an outside corner?
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:41 PM   #28
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The reason I asked about the pocket door is because it's best to anchor the shower door to the right wall if possible. A lot depends on what type of shower door you'll have, you may not be able to hinge the door to a glass panel without a metal trim piece going around the top. So, plan it out ahead of time to make sure the door you want will anchor where you want it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:17 PM   #29
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I was going to suggest considering a glass enclosure with no full wall, but it looks like the water comes into the shower wall instead of the room wall. (Unless you move the water pipes.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:59 PM   #30
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Whoops Davy, I forgot to say, no pocket door where I would be mounting glass. I will double up the studs where I anticipate a glass shower door would/might be hung. The door would be hung on the side you stated, by the entrance door. The entrance door opens to the outside of the bathroom thankfully.

Andy, I experimented with the glass enclosure idea. Round ones, neo angle, etc, absolutely not, too small. A rectangular one might work, but that makes a very hard corner in close quarters. Its a tough bathroom to figure out
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