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Old 12-20-2018, 09:43 PM   #31
speed51133
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you should go to www.schluter.com and spend time there also check their youtube channel.
https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us...-systems_new#0
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:52 PM   #32
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Thanks Mike. Just watched the video on their site.

So the Schluter®-Shower System removes all Mud huh. No Mud, No Liner. Just use that waterproofing orange stuff and get all the corners and lay down the tray that is already sloped for you.

Am I seeing this right?
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:03 PM   #33
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Josh, yes that's right. Your floor surface must be absolutely flat and level, though. That's the only catch with the foam pan.

If you do a mud bed, that doesn't mean you necessarily have to do the PVC liner. You could also make your mud bed and continue with Kerdi on top. PVC liner requires two mud beds, the preslope, then the liner, and then the top bed. Kerdi only requires one sloped mud bed. For a DIY, that is often a bit easier.
I never worked with PVC liners, did my two shower with a traditional mud bed to perfectly fit my spaces and then used the Kerdi system on top. PVC liners are thicker and bulkier, requiring notched studs to tuck the folded edges away at the corners and to carefully nail them into the framing at a high enough point. Also, curbs with PVC liner are a bit more difficult than the Kerdi method. Just my personal opinion, though.
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Old 12-21-2018, 06:43 AM   #34
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Yep, what the others said. Basically, with Kerdi and other surface membranes you set the tile directly to it. You can't stick tiles directly to the PVC liner, that's why a second mud bed is needed over it.
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Old 12-21-2018, 07:08 AM   #35
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Before settling on a particular method, Josh, you might want to check with the Condo association folks. They may have rules that dictate certain steps or processes that need to be followed.

One challenge to a mud bed that has not been mentioned, and particularly applies to you being on the 4th floor, is moving all that heavy material (bags of dry mud mix), having a large container, think wheel barrow size, to mix the mud, having something to mix it with, disposing of left over material, etc. While not insurmountable, they are considerations. If you plan to do this job flying under the condo assoc's radar, schlepping all that material is likely to draw attention.
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:02 AM   #36
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Yeh, I know. I've already checked with them. All good.
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:19 AM   #37
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On a wood subfloor, what is the purpose of the first mud layer?

I know understand that the 2nd layer of mud, the one on top of the linear is to set the tiles.

Why can't you lay the liner on the subfloor?
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:25 AM   #38
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Wink

the first mortar layer provides the slope for the waterproofing.The layer over the waterproofing is the bonding surface for the tile..
Noble Co offers a foam pre-pitch(slope) called PRO SLOPE, than the liner goes on it. You only need to mortar once .. If you want the other option we have that too..drains,pvc,surface applied,niches,etc

www.noblecompany.com
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:34 AM   #39
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link

http://noblecompany.com/products/pro-slope
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:10 AM   #40
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So let me get this straight, from my research and learning from you guys, if water get's past the tiles and top mortar bed, the liner below will collect that water and take it to the drain.

If water is making it to the liner, won't that make the foundation of the tiles unstable?
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:20 AM   #41
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For the most part water will not hurt the mortar..(think of a cement slab or bridge) it just wont stop the water from going through it ,that's where the waterproofing comes in.

The mortar method is the oldest method, been done for years. Just tore one out that was build in 1970,everything was great except for the Avocado tile color!
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:24 AM   #42
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Is it overkill to do it the old method with mud and once it is complete and before the tiles, put a liquid waterproofing membrane or something similar over the top layer of mud to give it extra waterproofing?

Or is this just dumb and unnecessary?
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:29 AM   #43
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It isn't necessary but if it makes you sleep at night people do it...I wouldn't but people do.
The waterproofing used in this application is approx. as thick as a credit card. If you follow the directions it wont leak! Our Chloraloy membrane has been used in this application since 1964.Has a life time warranty.
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:57 AM   #44
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you typically avoid doing multiple layers of waterproofing. You only want one.

if you have multiple layers it will not let any moisture between the two dry out.

for this reason,(not to mention cost) when constructing buildings you do not use multiple layers of vapor barrier. you only use one.

with respect to water hurting the mortar, portland cement based mortars (any kind that is a powder you mix with water) are absolutely not hurt with water. this is why foundations, driveways, etc. are built with concrete (which is essentially a type of mortar). this is also a reason you AVOID using mastic (any bucket or tube of PREMIXED mortar). never use any mortar that comes pre-mixed and ready to go in any location that gets wet, no matter what the bucket or home depot dude says.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:42 PM   #45
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Thanks people. The more you guys respond with info, the more confident I am at knocking this thing out of the park. So much help.

So I’m going to buy some Portland Cement Mortar soon. Is there a specific kind or does it not matter? As long as I mix with water I’m good.
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