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Old 03-24-2018, 11:55 AM   #16
Davy
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Ali, you may already know this but the lack of a preslope just means that when water gets thru the floor tile and mud, it won't be able to find it's way to the weep holes. The water will sit in the pan and saturate the mud bed. I have seen some that have a moldy smell but not all of them. Many times the water replaces itself enough that there is no mildew smell. When the system is built correctly, it works fine, that's why it's an approved system. But just like any system, if you leave out one step, it can cause problems. It's best to not have that water pool up in the mud bed and that what the preslope under the liner is all about. These guys need to think it through. Sure, it won't leak but there's no way for the water to find it's way out unless there's a preslope to pitch the pan liner toward the drain/weelholes. It's not rocket science.
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:33 PM   #17
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I believe you, and that's what I tried to explain to the inspector, his supervisor, and the township... No luck, they would rather half ass things than think it through. Can't expect much more out of the lazy inept majority of government workers.

My last bit of luck will be if I can meet with the builder and convince them to redo a few hours of work and move on.

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Old 03-24-2018, 07:47 PM   #18
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Does your local television have a 'help' line where you can point out that the locals are ignoring the plumbing codes? That might get some attention! Some stations have a group that does things like bring attention to ineptitude! Bad publicity can make the perpetrators rethink their ways when everyone in the area gets educated about what's acceptable and what's not.

A letter to the editor of your local newspaper pointing out the code requirement and the lack of enforcement might help, maybe add a picture or two.

Are your local inspectors elected, or appointed? Some of them don't have a clue.
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:35 AM   #19
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An update to this thread. Thanks to those who gave me advice.

After countless attempts to get the township plumbing inspector and the chief building inspector to come out and correct the issues I pointed out, they ended up signing off on the work and the builder proceeded to finish up the shower. About the only thing the builder complied with was adding a surface membrane to the walls at my request.

We ended up closing on the house in August and to my wife's disappointment, the shower is off limits until I had time to tear it out. In the meantime, 70sq feet of glass backsplash went in, landscaping went in, garage was finished/painted, and the entire house was painted.

After a month hiatus, I've ripped out the shower and noticed a lot of issues along the way. I'm glad that I tore it all out otherwise we'd have problems down the road. Tiles not back buttered 100%, liner not glued in most areas, mud bed on floor and bench dirty and not compacted, inconsistent slope, drain not secured to the subfloor because the hole was too big, missing exterior wall insulation, and pex lines to the shower valve not secured.

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Old 12-23-2018, 11:45 AM   #20
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Before I begin drywall in preparation for kerdi, I'm going to do the following:

1. Remove faced insulation and replace with 2.5" XPS board/spray foam on interior and exterior shower walls for noise reduction after removing shower liner blocking.
2. Correct the drain by cutting out the existing ptrap and replacing with a new low profile 2" ptrap and clamping drain.
3. Not sure if I should cut out the existing 5/8 subfloor and replace the section around the drain or install my 3-2x4 curb and add a layer of exterior grade plywood glued/screwed above the existing subfloor before installing a new clamping drain.
4. Note: I'm going with a clamping drain again because the kerdi drain I own is the ac version that installs over a clamping drain.
5. The floor joists are 2x8 16"oc with the exception of the shower area. That area is roughly 24" oc and contains the pex line to the toilet and sewer line to the toilet/shower. The shower sits on the interior/exterior supporting wall that extends into the garage. I plan on insulating this cavity after I correct the ptrap.

My only concern is that the floor may not be study enough for a mud pan, however, I cannot sister the joists in this area because of the plumbing contained within. Can I box in the drain with 2x4s spanning from one joist to another for suppor?


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Old 12-23-2018, 05:46 PM   #21
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Added XPS today and removed blocking, went a little overkill with the foam because I wanted to empty the can.

Still holding out on shower floor until I get some advice. I don't think deflection will be an issue with 16" OC and almost sitting on top of a load bearing wall below but I want to make sure.

I believe the best way to fix the floor will be to add 3/4" plywood instead of cutting out the OSB to fix the drain. I'll fix the drain from the garage below as there is decent access if I cut out some drywall.

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Old 12-23-2018, 06:03 PM   #22
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Ali, did you batt and flash, i.e. install a fiberglass batt first and then do the foam board? If so, it would have been wiser to put the batt on the inside and the foam on the outside so the batt wouldn't suffer from air infiltration.

Or did you stack multiple foam boards? It's called poor man's sprayfoam, and I've done it myself. I got the 3 inch polyiso roofing panels and cut those up to avoid having to mess with multiple layers of the thinner foam boards. Either way will work as long as your perimeter seal is intact.

Regardless, foam insulation is amazing.

Sorry about the substandard shower installation. Many of us get stuck with this when we buy older homes. You tried hard to avoid the mistakes from being made. But seems like you were up against stubborn people who were unwilling to learn. That's the worst when people shut down and refuse to open up to knowledge.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:28 PM   #23
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I would recommend against just stacking 3 - 2x wood for a curb. 4 1/2 inches of solid wood can move a lot with seasonal humidity, leading to potential cracking down the line. Use a foam curb purchased or you can make it from laminated formular 250 pieces to the size you want. Sure, plenty use wood, but you are looking to go above and beyond so using materials that are stable is a good way to go imo.

And if you are going kerdi on the walls, definately get rid of the old drain and go with a kerdi drain, going surface sealed floor is a big upgrade and helps keep things dry and mold free.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:29 PM   #24
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Wolfgang,

I layered 2"+.5" boards with the recommended adhesive, ended up getting rid of all the fiberglass. It is awesome stuff, bathroom feels like it holds a steady temp now that there aren't a bunch of voids and gaps in the insulation. I sealed all corners of both sheets with foam to make sure there were no pockets. Some of the 1" gaps in the corner will be filled with great stuff can foam later.

On one hand, I'm pissed off about the substandard install. On the other hand, I'm actually happy they did such a poor job constructing the shower, I was able to tear everything out clean in about 10-15 hours and I am confident I can build a nicer shower that fits the space better. The previous shower was completely enclosed on all sides except for a 36" opening by the bathroom door, real dark and a waste of space imo.

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Old 12-23-2018, 06:33 PM   #25
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Kevin,

Interesting, I didn't know I could build a curb out of XPS. I'm assuming I can stick it to the floor with the foam board adhesive but how will I attach drywall to it before Kerdi?

You think I should return the kerdi drain for clamping drains and install a regular kerdi drain in its place after I replace the ptrap? Adding a layer of 3/4 exterior plywood between the foam curb and wall still a good idea?

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Old 12-23-2018, 06:40 PM   #26
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Ali, an additional nominal 1/2" exterior glue plywood layer should make your subfloor adequate over that 24"oc framing area. You can certainly use 3/4" if you want, though.

I would recommend you not install the clamping drain, but change your current adapter bonding flange drain for a standard bonding flange drain.

I disagree with Kevin that it is any problem at all using three 2x4s for your curb framing. Kiln dried lumber that is not exposed to excess moisture is quite stable enough in that application covered with either drywall or CBU before your Kerdi.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:57 PM   #27
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Kelly,

I appreciate it, that makes my life a hell of a lot easier. 1/2 exterior plywood and 2x4 curb will be pretty easy to whip up tomorrow or Christmas day.

I will return my kerdi flange drain and swap it out.

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Old 12-23-2018, 08:00 PM   #28
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Ali, good deal on the improved insulation. You probably could have gotten another 1/2 in of foam board in there for an extra R3 but what you have is pretty good already.
A serrated knife with some flex to the blade will let you trim off the excess Great Stuff with ease.
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Old 12-23-2018, 08:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly
1/2 exterior plywood...
That's exterior glue plywood, Kelly, with no face of grade lower than C.
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:18 PM   #30
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I've built a good number of showers over a plywood subfloor using three 2x4's, covered with sheetrock and Kerdi. It works well, never had a problem with it.

Now, over a slab is a different story. Those curbs I make out of concrete.
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