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Unread 02-26-2006, 02:34 PM   #1
Johhny TP
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No rear flange on shower pan

I'm currently remodeling the bathroom in a 100 yr old house and have hired out some of the work. I completely gutted the old bathroom and the contractor put in the new subfloor and leveled it as well as can be expected. To save money I've bought some of the new items over the internet. The old bathroom did not have a shower separate from the tub so I found quarter round glass shower enclosure for half price and a "matching" fiberglass shower pan. When I showed the pan to the contractor he told me that it should have a flange on the back to allow the backer board to overlap it. I've looked on the internet for another shower pan but it's going to cost me another $500 to purchase a new one and I noticed that most of the ones shown on the european sites don't have a rear flange either. I guess I got a european shower pan? Is there a way to make this shower pan work so that I don't have to worry about leaks behind the pan where it and the wall will meet? Or should I just swallow the money I spent on this shower pan and purchase a new one? If you think we can make this pan work, should I put backer board underneath the pan or just up to it?
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Unread 02-27-2006, 01:11 AM   #2
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There are glue-on flanges designed for adapting drop-in tubs for installation tight to a wall. These might be an acceptable solution for your receptor. Let's see what the pros have to say.

Building a Kerdi shower and adhering the Kerdi to the top edge of the receptor using Kerdi-Fix might be another good approach.

Install the shower receptor first. Then install the backerboard up to it, leaving a 1/4" space.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 07:15 AM   #3
Mike2
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Hi John.

I'm glad you asked about that pan before proceeding ahead. Seems to me that without a flange you would ultimately be relying solely upon a bead of caulk to maintain the water integrety of your shower. We all have our different comfort zones but that type of installation would not give me the confidence I'd want for a long lasting shower installation.

What do the installation instructions have to say about this? Also can you give us the maufacturers name and website you ordered this from?

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Unread 02-27-2006, 07:25 AM   #4
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The only thing that I can think of would be to use Noble TS on the walls, with the backer board shimmed out a bit from the plane of the studs, and the lower edge of the sheet glued to the base (under the lower edge of the backer board) with Noblesealant 150. I think this would work, but would require real attention to detail.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 10:12 AM   #5
Johhny TP
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I searched the web and talked with a guy on another site yesterday, and discussed the problem with my contractor this morning. Most of the ideas are fairly similar to what yall are proposing. I too am not too secure with just depending upon a bead of calk to keep water from leaking behind the pan. We don't plan on living in this house for much longer, but I just wouldn't feel right selling a house knowing that there was a plumbing time bomb in the bathroom for the buyer. I also thought that there ought to be some sort of flashing that could be bonded to the pan or making a flashing out of shower membrane. My contractor feels that if we fashion some sort of flashing and run it behind the backerboard and run the backer board into the calk bead above the pan that it should provide a sufficient temporary backup for when the calk seal eventually fails. I looked for flashing on the internet but could not find any for a shower, jdm, do you know where I could find it? I also thought about using that noblesealant 150 to bond the flashing or shower membrane to the pan and thanks to a thread I found on this site that discussed a problem one of the members was having with trying to reuse his cultured marble and pan. I think it was Rob who made that suggestion back then as well. This is the best DIY forum on the internet by far.

Oh, and to answer Mike's question I bought the pan and shower door at Hovoson's, www.hovoson.com. It's a store in North Hollywood that sells extras. There were no instructions that came with either product, the owner seems to be a nice guy and honest, shipped the pan and door cross country within a week of purchase, but I think he gets his products from overseas based upon his thick accent and the fact that the written material in the packages was written in broken english.

Sorry to run on, does the flashing idea seem like an appropriate solution to yall as well? My contractor also plans on setting the pan in sandikrete to keep it from moving around. I haven't seen that discussed here before. The pan does have a metal frame underneath it and adjustable feet. Should the backer board run under the pan or should I just cut it around the base so that it helps to keep the pan from moving around? Maybe I'm just worrying too much.

Thanks for all your help

I'll send pictures later if anyone is interested
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Unread 02-27-2006, 11:00 AM   #6
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Here's Kohler's tiling-in bead. Be sure to look at the installation instruction under technical information. This may or may not work, depending on the shape of the outer edge of your pan. You could also look at similar products from other drop-in tub manufacturers.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 11:04 AM   #7
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Setting the pan in a bed of sakrete is a good idea. It helps reinforce the bottom of the pan.

If you caulk the backerboard to the pan, then caulked the tile to the pan, you'd have 2 seals that'd have to fail. If you use 100% silicone on the backerboard to pan seal, it should be as good as it gets. Even the Kohler bead requires a sealant to work.

Now you know why we like our mud bed and liner pans.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 11:21 AM   #8
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Unfortunately, Mr. Hovoson has no idea about what he is selling.

He has a link for the pan installation, that points to leakyshower.com's diagram of their version of a mud shower floor with liner. The instructions have nothing at all to do with the shower receptor being sold.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 11:24 AM   #9
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Yeah, I saw that, too.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 11:46 AM   #10
Johhny TP
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I will probably approach this how I usually approach anything and over engineer it. I think the Kohler bead will work since the pan's edge that touches the wall is finished all the way to the floor. So if I use the bead and caulk the cement board to the pan and the tile to the pan and line behind the bead and cement board with roofing felt, it should be sufficiently over engineered. I'll let you know how it works. Yall are awesome. I'll probably be back to find out the best way to attach my shower door to the wall and the pan when I get done with the tile work. Thanks again,

John
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Unread 02-27-2006, 12:10 PM   #11
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Whoa there, John! If I followed your thinking, your felt will end up between the wall and the outside of the bead. If so, any moisture that gets to the felt will end up on the floor. That may be OK if this is a lightly used shower, but if not, then you could collect a bit of water back there. Instead of the tarpaper on the back side, I suggest you waterproof the backerboard on the front side with either a roll-on waterproofing membrane (like Redgard), or a fabric type membrane, such as Kerdi. Both of these products will keep the water in the pan, where it will flow to the drain, rather than on your subfloor.
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Unread 02-27-2006, 12:51 PM   #12
Johhny TP
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Red face

Thanks Bob, that would have been a mistake. I'll pickup some redgard. That's available at just about any HD or Lowe's?

John
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Unread 02-27-2006, 01:37 PM   #13
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RedGard is a Custom product, which is available at Home Despot, but not Lowe'st.

Depending on your location, Lowe'st may have a similar product by either Laticrete or Mapei, but I'm not sure what they have.
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