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Unread 01-30-2020, 03:36 PM   #16
Husky546
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Sorry I failed to mention that yes my plan is to build a tiled stand up shower. I have a drain installed with a trap underground now that links into the main stack of the house I believe the drain is 2 inch but I would have to look again. As is typical with my projects I set the drain,drew in where I wanted the walls and a few weeks later my wife decided she wanted it the be bigger. Of course like a dope I had already poured concrete.

So being that my drain is now off center a bit (which will drive me insane anyway) I’m probably best off just opening up the concrete again and moving the drain. A half a days work and then I don’t have to fight with my preslope.
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Unread 01-30-2020, 06:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick in Post #1
But I have gotten stuck as far as how to properly waterproof the shower.
I think Mike musta missed that in your opening post, Nick.

Centered drains do make things easier in shower construction.
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Unread 01-30-2020, 06:58 PM   #18
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Thanks again for all the help....I have wasted many an hour searching the google with no real answers. Here’s a picture of the construction thus far which I also have a question or two on but I don’t want to waste anymore of your time today since you have been guiding me most of the afternoon
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Unread 01-30-2020, 07:02 PM   #19
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If you zoom in you can see where the drain now sits and how’s its off center due to shower size increasing and the adding of the bench seat
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Unread 01-30-2020, 07:04 PM   #20
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Nick, the entire purpose of this website is to answer your questions. Our all volunteer army of helpers will answer as they feel they have time, so you're not imposing upon anybody by asking more questions. Hopefully somebody will answer them if you're sufficiently patient. And hopefully those answers will be helpful.

That drain location would bother me to no end, but others may not notice it much at all.
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Unread 01-30-2020, 07:20 PM   #21
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Good to know. I guess for the last piece of this puzzle what I will be talking about is the base plate of the shower framing which can be seen in the attached picture. As you will notice my floor is concrete and the base plate is not pressure treated.

Now this is another point of back and forth the more I research on the Internet. As most of us know code says any wood in contact with concrete needs to be pressure treated or rot resistant.

In the case of shower framing I have heard many a story about treated lumber bowing as it dries and moving all over the place, popping grout, shifting tile etc. For this reason I opted to stay away from the treated lumber. Is there another and better way to do this without pressure treated lumber? I’m sure there is but this is the boat I’m in.

Now had this exact shower been installed upstairs and not on concrete we get away from that pesky treated wood requirement. While I’m not an expert my understanding is that pressure treated wood helps protect against from any water that sleeps through the concrete as a properly built shower should be water tite and not introduce moisture to the framing.

With this in mind I would like to bring up the construction of my house. The home was built in the 50s and as I tore out the old bathroom it probably comes as no shock I found all cast iron drain line ungrounded wire and no pressure treated lumber anywhere. The point I’m getting at is the construction has been there for years and all of the lumber I found was in great shape. Very dry very solid and no sign of water at all except in one area where based on the floor above there was a prolonged leak coming from the second level and leaking into the basement. But aside from this I would absolutely and did reuse much of the old lumber.

So coming back to where I am now I seem to have gotten into my own head and have convinced myself the shower will totally fall apart instantly due to this despite having a very dry basement. With that being said I’m sure there is many a house and bathroom still standing that was built without pressure treated base plates (particularly from the era when pressure treated wood was super toxic and no one uses it indoors) Ie my grandpas house which is from the same era.

So does anyone have experience with something like this? Am I actually doomed or am I trying to reinvent the wheel here?
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Unread 01-30-2020, 07:48 PM   #22
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I stick with code and use PT as the floor plate. I'd glue and ram set it. I think the main concern is simply with the curb piece. You can use bricks and avoid it altogether.
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Unread 01-30-2020, 07:58 PM   #23
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And I think the curb is my biggest concern. But the way I have things set up now the bottom plate hold a lot together. There is zero way I can take this thing apart and rebuilt it without basically starting over but do you think I need to or will this be ok? I did get inspected and the inspector didn’t say anything. Why I have no idea but I made it by and got signed off
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Unread 01-30-2020, 08:05 PM   #24
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And I agree if I were to do it again I would do it differently. That being said this is more of a first time learning deal and my concern now is not so much does it meet code but will it hold together based on what you guys now and my particular basement conditions
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Unread 01-30-2020, 09:10 PM   #25
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Nick, your new questions involving environmental considerations prompts me one more time to invite you to put a geographic location into your User Profile. That can be helpful on many types of questions.

The only time I've ever encountered rotted bottom plates on interior walls on SOG construction in my area of the country were in situations where there had been some sort of water intrusion from plumbing leaks or flooding. Even in older structures where the exterior wall bottom plates had been rot damaged, I don't recall significant damage on interior wall plates. And some of these were certainly old enough not to have had any serious attempt at water or vapor management before the concrete was poured.

Does that mean it can't happen? Certainly not. But I don't think it's as common as you might expect.

When I started building new houses I first used roofing felt under KD lumber for all the bottom wall plates. Then we started using KDAT treated wood for such plates, avoiding the problems with dimensional disparity, but interior wall plates were KD lumber. Bear in mind that I was always very serious in protecting the integrity of my vapor barrier material under the SOG. Some of these houses exceed 30 years in age and I have done remodel work on several when they were more than 25 years old and have never seen any hint of bottom plate rot.

And the only interior wall bottom plate issues I recall hearing about here that were not the result of above grade water intrusion is one John Bridge reported early on in his use of Kerdi membrane for showers. He had a SOG foundation that apparently had serious moisture vapor emission problems and he had completely surrounded a wood framed shower curb with the Kerdi membrane extended out onto the concrete floor. The wood swelled and caused a failure in his curb tile. Not a good outcome.

Every other rotted wood curb I've seen posted here was the result of water from above, usually from improper liner installation or mechanical fastener penetrations in the liner on the curb.

But, then, I ain't seen'em all, eh?

Should you tear out your framing and start over with treated wood bottom plates? That's up to you. I wouldn't, but if you do, I'd recommend you use KDAT lumber rather than regular pressure treated lumber.

[Edit] Oops! Now that I see your most recent post and remember that you're in a basement, I might be a little less confident of your situation. Keep in mind that all the above concerned SOG construction and not below grade construction. Moisture management there might be a good bit more critical and I have no idea how that might have been done in houses of your age in your area. You ever do any moisture vapor emissions testing on that floor?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-30-2020, 10:02 PM   #26
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By me it's code to use PT wood when it contacts concrete in the basement. That's reason enough for me.

But it's your house. You already passed inspection.
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Unread 01-31-2020, 04:30 AM   #27
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Still working on the geo profile or trying to figure that out. By vapor emissions testing are you talking about sealing off a section with plastic and seeing if anything appears underneath?

And on the note of roofing felt under the base plate I haven’t done this but have enough room under the plates that I could slide some in with little difficulty if you think that would be worth the time and effort

My biggest concern here is the curb and could use suggestions on what to do there. Like I said before the bathroom I tore out had non treated plates that showed no evidence of moisture damage so I think I may be worrying a bit much for nothing. But I could see where a curb could introduce water in other ways
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Unread 01-31-2020, 07:15 AM   #28
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Yes, lay a square of plastic down, 12X12 should do, tape the edges to seal it to the slab, and see if it accumulates moisture under it. If it's dry for a day, leave it for two, or leave it for as long as it takes for you to feel comfortable. No guaranty, of course, especially if you're in a particularly soggy area of the country, and/or if you have drainage challenges around the perimeter of the house.

I'm pretty sure even treated lumber will swell when it gets wet, though maybe less than non-treated, it just takes longer to rot.
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Unread 01-31-2020, 07:38 AM   #29
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how can you have room to slide roofing felt UNDER the plates??? Did you not fasten them to the floor? Are they floating or something?
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Unread 01-31-2020, 08:24 AM   #30
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maybe a dimes worth of space under the base plate. The new walls are screwed into the floor joists and I cut them just a tiny hair shy so I could get them in without having to force them and to account for a little variation in the concrete
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