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Unread 03-14-2020, 05:55 PM   #196
JWOrl
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Thanks cx, I've read about creating the Redgard primer and I definitely plan to do that.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 09:27 AM   #197
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I found a subway tile that I like that's 4.25 X 10.

I looked at the specs for the product online and there is no guidance about whether I have to use a 33% offset for this size of tile. I don't care for the look of 33% and prefer to go with 50%.

Anyone here know if I can use 50% offset with 1/8 grout lines on this, or will I encounter the lippage problem? Thanks.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 09:31 AM   #198
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John, we haven't seen this tile you like. And until you have it in hand, you're not gonna know if it's sufficiently flat to use a 50 percent offset pattern without unacceptable lippage.

Does this tile meet the standards of ANSI A137.1?
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Unread 03-15-2020, 09:41 AM   #199
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They don't give any ANSI information in the online specs, I'll have to go back to the store and see if the box says anything about that.

Maybe it's best to go buy 2 boxes of this stuff, mix them and run them together as Dan said and check with a level to see if they are flat. If there are problems I can just return the tile to the store.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 09:51 AM   #200
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Good plan.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 10:09 AM   #201
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Thanks. This has been quite confusing. The 3 X 12 that I was looking at earlier has a manufacturer reco of 33% offset and yet I see photos online where people have installed this tile at 50%...who is right...
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Unread 03-15-2020, 10:28 AM   #202
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John, if the tile is flat and the substrate is flat and the installer is competent, a 50 percent offset can work just fine. The fact that the manufacturer recommends no more than a 33 percent offset indicates to me that the manufacturer doesn't expect his tile to be flat enough to be used at a 50 percent offset and still meet tile industry lippage requirements. Such a recommendation should be given serious consideration, but it's your installation and your lippage tolerance and yours to do over if it doesn't work out well, so I say give it a try if you want and let us know how it turns out.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 10:34 AM   #203
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People are free to install their tile using whatever pattern they like, and maybe are willing to accept some degree of lippage in trade for their preferred pattern. Or maybe the photos you've seen just are not showing the lippage. Or maybe the tile turned out to be flat enough to do the 50% offset without lippage.

Or, or, or....

Ya just won't know until you bring some home and check them out. The 33% rule of thumb is specified only to minimize lippage, but the tile itself sure doesn't care about the offset. The box may recommend the 33% but you may find the tile is dead flat. Or not.
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Unread 03-15-2020, 11:18 AM   #204
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Lighting makes a difference as well. If there's a light shining across the surface of the tile, lippage will be more noticeable.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 05:05 AM   #205
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OK thanks. I didn't understand this stuff -- I thought it all had to do with format size and that there was a size you cannot go beyond...but it has to do just as much with the framing member and tile flatness.

I've decided to try the 3 X 12 because it is a better color match to the bathtub and the ceramic shelf I want to install. bought two boxes and will be testing flatness first.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 06:25 PM   #206
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When you install the 5 inch Kerdi band as fabric around the tub / CBU transition -- does this create a huge "hump" where you have to build the thinset way up on the rest of the CBU to be level with the fabric area?

I am asking because, since you have to first create a bed of thinset underneath where the fabric will be placed, then redgard on top of the fabric and then more thinset on top of the fabric to set the tiles, it seems it would be adding a lot of extra thickness in that one area of the CBU. Thanks.
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Unread 03-16-2020, 09:23 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
I thought it all had to do with format size and that there was a size you cannot go beyond...but it has to do just as much with the framing member and tile flatness.
John, the lippage issue is based upon the flatness of the tile and the flatness of the substrate. It's assumed that the installer is capable of eliminating lippage if both tile and substrate are flat. The size of the tile comes into play only because the amount of warpage probable in a ceramic tile is proportional to the size of the tile.

The ceramic tile industry chose a dimension of 15 inches at which to recommend that 50 percent offset patterns should no longer be considered. Somewhat arbitrary, it does consider the allowable warpage of a tile while still in compliance with ANSI A137.1 and at what point the height of the tile ends and the tile centers will exceed the allowable lippage without any error in the installation. But if the tile is flat, really flat, and the substrate is flat, there is no reason a 50 percent offset cannot be successfully installed regardless the tile size. You may not be able to do it, I may not be able to do it, but it can be done.

Small tiles like you are contemplating could also very well be warped to the extent that you simply cannot do a 50 percent offset layout. It's probable those tiles are do not meet the requirements of A137.1, though. If you get a good quality tile in those sizes, you should be able to use the 50 percent offset if you want, but you still need to verify the flatness of your tiles and your substrate before you commit to that.

It's really very simple. It's only the explanation that's complicated.

The KerdiBand installation, properly executed, should not be troublesome with the tiles you plan to use. If you're concerned, get some USG Shower System membrane or 5" strips (same product either way) and use that. Thinner than the KerdiBand. I've no idea how much RedGard tries to build up over the fuzzy KerdiBand. Never tried it. Don't recommend it. The USG material would be thinner there, too, though. Not as fuzzy.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 04:50 AM   #208
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Great, thank you cx, for the very thorough explanation!

I had no idea how many aspects there were to this back when I started this project...but now I've learned a ton.
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Unread 03-28-2020, 04:05 PM   #209
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Am I going to have an issue with this valve protruding too much from the wall? The CBU is .42 thick and the tile I've chosen is 5/16 inch thick. As you can see from this photo the valve protrudes about 2.5 inches from the studs. Is this a problem or is there something I'm missing? Thanks.
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Unread 03-29-2020, 06:21 AM   #210
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The handle should go on much farther than that, John.

With the face plate mounted to the valve body how much space is there between it and the wall studs?
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