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Unread 02-17-2004, 07:38 AM   #16
cx
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You likely got the addative-in-the-deck-mud from a Michael Byrne book. It's to make the mud stronger, but it's not necessary for your shower floor and it makes the mud more difficult to work. I'd just mix it with water - and not much of it.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 11:59 AM   #17
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O.K., I thought the mud would be straightforward, but, as usual, there's more to it than I thought. I went to the Home Depot and found three types of portland cement and a couple types of sand and several types of roofing felt.

portland cement- there is type I, type II and type II-V
I don't know what the difference is so does anyone know which one to use?

sand- there is are two types of building sand (can't remember their descriptions) and sandbox sand
Which one should I get or should I get something completely different somewhere else?

roofing felt- there is 15# felt that states there are no expressed warranties and doesn't really sound like they want to commit to the stuff being waterproof, although it does sound like the stuff I should use from the postings on this site and in John and Michael's books. There is also this stuff called water base or weather base and has this four hour shower thing on it with an umbrella (anyone know what I'm talking about?) and this stuff says it replaces 15, 30, 60 and 100 #. Is this the stuff I should get? Also, should I use some kind of sealant or adhesive where the roofing paper meets the drain to avoid water getting underneath?

I'm also wondering if I should get the chicken wire for the lathe or this 2x2 square metal grid with paper backing that is thicker and just take the backing off, I think the stuff is used for stucco.

Any suggestions or opinions are greatly appreciated!
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Unread 02-18-2004, 08:43 PM   #18
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Vince,

Get thee to the Liberry and read up on the shower articles we've put there. There are pictures of the products you need to buy.

Get any type of portland they have in the store as long as it's "portland cement." Don't worry about what type it is. It's just not important for our purposes.

Sand is a regional thing. I buy the Play Sand from Home Depot here. It's usually fine for the mortar I want to make.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 09:22 PM   #19
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When given such a choice, pick the Type I, Vince, anything beyond that has properties you don't care about nor want to pay for. I'm impressed you have such a choice at Homer's. Only in California, eh?

Buy you some six mil poly instead of the felt. It makes less lumps behind the CBU, makes a one-piece drain plane, and the leftovers are good for covering material, drop cloths and such.

Do what John said.
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Unread 02-19-2004, 02:58 AM   #20
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O.K. then, got it. Will go through the liberry again to check out more about this stuff. Thanks again everyone.
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Unread 04-26-2004, 05:13 PM   #21
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Well, it's been much slower going than I thought.

I had to redo the preslope twice. The first one was crumbly and had big potholes in it after I vacuumed up the crumbly spots. Actually it was more like a field of potholes with a few good spots.

The second time I mixed it a bit wetter with a little more cement and it looks like it's going to take. There are still a few crumbly spots and would like to know what I can do about those to build them up a bit?

The biggest problem I'm having is that when I lay a 2x4 across from one screed strip to the screed strip on the opposing wall (this is the longest spanning wall where I figured my slope from) and measure from the top of the drain flange to the bottom of the 2x4, I'm getting a measurement of less than 1/4 inch. I built the screed strips at one inch which takes the height of the drain flange into account to give me 3/4 inch slope from the central drain to the longest wall. This is going to be a problem, right?

How do I fix it? I hope I don't have to tear the thing out and start over, but I guess practice makes perfect. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks again-------Vince
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Unread 04-26-2004, 05:33 PM   #22
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Hi Vince, I'm not sure I understand correctly but if you have 3/4 inch fall from the bottom drain flange to the screed at the furthest wall, you'll be fine. Fill those holes with thinset.
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Unread 04-26-2004, 11:10 PM   #23
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I guess I wasn't too clear about the problem. I set up the screeds to where I thought I had a 3/4 inch fall from the farthest wall to the bottom drain flange, but after I finished the preslope, the measurement when laying a board balanced between the screeds on opposing walls ended up to be 1/4 inch from the bottom of the board to the drain flange. If anyone has Michael Byrne's book, "Setting Tile", what I'm talking about is pictured on p.210. If I'm correct, that means my slope is only 1/4 inch, right? Any ideas on what to do?

Thanks for the tip on filling holes with thinset, Davy. Do I trowel it on like when I fill a hole in the wall with spackle? What is the maximum depth of a hole that I can fill with thinset? Modified or unmodified or does it matter? Sorry, I'm full of questions. I just don't want to have to do this project more times than necessary. Thanks.

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Unread 04-27-2004, 07:14 AM   #24
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Hi Vince,

You need to log in again with your username and password. You can do that at the bottom right of the forum home page.

I think you need to install new wood strips on top of the mud floor you've made. Make sure they are level all the way around. You can then bond new mortar to the stuff you have in there now. You bond it with thin set that you mix like a soupy slurry. Spread that onto a section of your floor right before you dump new mud on it. Spread the new mud immediately so that the slurry doesn't have a chance to dry out on you.

Pack the mud down and rake the surface with 1x4s that are cut to fit between the drain and the new strip. Do about 1/4 of the floor at a time and get each part right before you move on to the next.

You can do this. I know you can.
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Unread 04-27-2004, 09:09 AM   #25
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Thanks for the advice, John. At least I don't have to do any more demo work first. I forgot my password, so I'll have to wait for it to arrive by email so I can register again. Any recommendations on what type of thinset to use in this situation? Thanks again everyone for all the great advice and expertise that have gotten me going this far!

Vince
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Unread 04-27-2004, 09:19 AM   #26
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Any thin set will bond mud to mud. Doesn't matter. If you have to buy thin set, buy Master Blend white at Home Depot. You can use it to set your tiles, too.

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Unread 04-27-2004, 10:54 AM   #27
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Thanks again, John. Will do.
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Unread 04-28-2004, 11:50 AM   #28
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It looks like the third time's a charm. The new and improved preslope is curing and looks good so far. I don't think I would have made it to this point without everyone's input and all the knowledge available in this forum.

I hope I haven't worn out my welcome yet 'cause I've got more questions to come. The next thing I need help with is the pan liner. It looks like from the liberry and Michael Byrne's book that CPE membrane goes with a black drain and PVC goes with a white drain. Is this true?

The drains in the liberry look like they have three parts. My drain comes in two parts and looks similar to the two part cast iron drains, but mine is made out of black plastic. My main question is whether I need CPE or PVC membrane with this type of drain or if it is only a matter of personal preference which to use?

My second question is which type of goo (I'm not so good with technical terms as you can see!) do I need to seal the corners and attach the dam corners with?

Also, do I need to stick the membrane onto the blocking or preslope with adhesive or is it best just to staple it at the top to the blocking?

O.K., that should be enough to keep me busy for a little while. Any answers or other info related to the next steps on this project will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again! ----------- Vince
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Unread 04-28-2004, 12:38 PM   #29
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Hi, Vince! Glad you got your name back!

The liner material is either CPE or PVC. It doesn't matter which you use with PVC, ABS or cast iron drain fittings, you are not glueing the liner to the drain fitting.

The important thing is to buy the correct glue for the liner for when you want to glue the dam corners or seam the liner to make a bigger sheet. PVC glue for PVC liner, CPE glue for CPE liner. By the way, liner glue is not the same as pipe glue, so read the lable!

The liner is simply stapled (or nailed with roofing nails) to the blocking very close to the top. You use silicone caulk (or just about any other kind of caulk for that matter) to seal the liner to the top part of the lower clamping flange. You don't have to bond the liner to the preslope.

You need a three part drain fitting. The 3 parts are the base (bottom half), a clamping ring, and the strainer section (top half). They look like this:


The material for the drain fitting should match the material in the drain piping. ABS for black plastic piping, PVC for white plastic, and cast iron for, well, cast iron. In some cases, you use rubber donut or sleeve adapters to mate plastic to cast iron. With plastic pipes, it's all about the glue, so don't mix and match.

Bob
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Unread 04-28-2004, 02:54 PM   #30
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Thanks for the quick reply bbcamp. I understand now where I got the black with PVC and white with CPE idea; this refers to bonding pipes with drain fittings not pan liners.

Two more questions then I'll leave you guys alone until I get that liner installed.

1. Is PVC or CPE better for a pan liner? PVC is available at HD, but I haven't seen CPE on any shelves anywhere. Of course, if CPE is better, then I'll have to find a way to get it.

2. Do I really need a three piece drain system? In the liberry I found a drain that looks really similar to mine at this link:

http://www.instantset.com/shower_drains.htm

It is a clamping system and has weep holes. If I need to pull the drain out and refit it with something different, it will probably make a mess of my beautiful preslope. If it is absolutely necessary then I guess I'll have to do it.

Thanks again -------------Vince
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