Your company vs. there company: How do they stay in business

[youngbuck]

I'm sure theres been alot of topics as such but i couldnt find any so i decided to mention it. I want to hear some stories if you've come up on the same problem.
I bid this project 6 months ago and didn't get it. The other tile contractor was 10% lower then i was. It was a 175k project. I got a call tonight from the general of the project saying that all the flooring (6000 sq ft) was tile directly over the wood subfloor. They skimmed a coat of SLC directly over the wood with no wire and tiled on it. It all has come loose after just two months. The gc said he came highly recommended from a couple gc's. When he called the tile contractor he said the tile is loose due to too much movement in the framing therefore it is not his fault and he should be paid to repair it. Of course gc said next step is to sue him. How do tile contractors like this stay in business. gc said tile contractor has been in business 20 years. Oh well. His idiocy results in more work for me. Anyone have simialar stories
Thamks
Buck

[Tool Guy - Kg]

Too many to list. Though my jobs are much smaller in $$$ as it's residential. They go with someone else because they are cheaper, and regret it when they have to undergo expensive fixes/redos.

Only thing worse to loosing the job to an inferior installation is when the homeowner comes to you afterwards to fix the other guy's mistakes. And to top it off, they typically ask you for a deal on the repair because they "can't afford it". Right.

[youngbuck]

Thats exactly what the gc asked. He needed a deal to put it in correctly with a tight timeline. Its a big residential home and now is completely finished. It has finished walls that were grounded up from marble, mixed in with resin and spread out to make it look like marble slabs. gc says cant damage it as can't be patched. cost to fix if damaged $30/sq ft. Boy are we in the wrong business.

[Tool Guy - Kg]

I think the worst of all scenarios is that you do cut them a deal to pull them out of a jamb with the understanding of a better working relationship after it's done.....then you never hear from them.

I know many of the pros here have done that out of compassion and hopes for a better tomorrow, only to be taken advantage of.

[stullis]

How do they stay in business? They rarely if ever get sued. The threat is made many times but rarely ever done.

[John K]

Buck,

In your state the contractor is required to be licensed. The GC can call the contractors board and get them involved. Its too bad that the GC didn't have enough sense too over see his project and have specified a mud install.

I wouldn't help him out if I was you. But that's me. He deserves exactly what he got.

[pitterpat]

John K, maybe you mean you wouldn't help him out at a reduced price. That's what I would do. I would fix but at a premium price.

[Shaughnn]

Buck,
You asked, "How do they stay in business", as if the other tile contractor is mistaken. He's been in business for 20 years. Maybe when he says that the structure moved, he is accurate? SLC over plywood is done all of the time. Did your GC mention if an underlayment membrane was used also?
Rather than assuming that the competition screwed the pooch on this one, I'd be leary that there are indeed structural issues which the GC has overlooked. You might suggest to him that he get the SLC manufacturer rep out to the job to evaluate the failure, and perhaps even an independant inspector/consultant? And then when you have their report in-hand, submit your repair/replacement bid with all of those considerations in mind.
Shaughnn

[Bri]

I see this stuff all the time. The trouble is, you look at the drawing and specs, and price it that way. If the Engineer and architect spell out how it was to be done, then the tile contractor is off the hook. I shake my head daily, now that I work strictly commercial.

[customceramicsllc]

i priced a job last year at 22,000, another bid was higher at 24,500.
the low baller came highly reccomended at 12,500.
GO FIGURE
in my opinion the gc had a 9500 buffer to get the end product right.
In the end you get what you pay for.
ps my price was to get the job and when i heard the lowball i was so confused as to how a gc could compromise a high end new home by having cowboys(no offence to the texans here) install on the job. Iwish them everything they deserve.
I will try to find my old post

[John K]

"6000 sq ft) was tile directly over the wood subfloor. They skimmed a coat of SLC directly over the wood with no wire and tiled on it"

That is not done all the time.

[Shaughnn]

John,
How thick was the "skim" of SLC? The point that I was trying to make is that it's still unclear exactly how this other contractor installed the job and right now you have a tile contractor with "20 years of experience" saying that the GC built an inferior structure and the GC saying that the tile guy doesn't know what he's doing.
We hear all the time about how, "I've been doing it this way for XX number of years" and we all know that that's rarely a stamp of competence, but in this case I think I hear a little whisper of blame that could fall in the GC's direction.
I'm curious to hear how it's resolved and who ultimately gets stuck holding the bag.
Shaughnn

[John K]

Shaughnn,

I see what your saying. Your right. At this point its all speculation. I saw the skim coat and no wire lath, and I'm thinking skim coat. Dunno

[MNTileGuy]

This is almost as bad... Last week we tore out a MUCH smaller floor where the tile "pro" did use lath-but-he put down tar paper over the plywood. Great if he was gonna mud it, not so great with SLC. At least we were able to give the HO a logical explanation why her 6 yr old floor was coming loose...

Brad

[stullis]

Shaughnn, you do NOT put SLC over a wood substrate without mesh, doesn't matter how thick.

I've got a 20+ year tile contractor in my area who uses the Jersey mud method all the time, if the floor is solid it survives if it isn't it doesn't. I guess then that the Jersey mud method isn't at fault and it is just structural issues?