UNION Quotas

[chesterflick]

Hello folks, living the semi-retired life in Hawaii but still in the tile business helping a young company grow.
Unfortunately, there is a huge union presence here and in a twisted way it seems some kind of payola system. We can still bid on jobs but sometimes we need to pull from the shop to meet contract obligations. The Government here has made it a law that any city/county construction job over 2 million has to use union labor. End of story.
All of our employees are paid by the hour with full benefits. The wages we pay are not where they should be but now that we are bidding on more commercial and Military jobs, Davis Bacon is in play.
The union seems to be able to suck up most of the work. We are using the DB wages with fringe and we are always too high.
One of the reasons is because of the way people work here. SLLLLOOOWWWWW. I have a job where it takes a tile setter a full day's wages to set a 60 S.F. tub hop. helpers grout 3 of them in a day. It's crazy.

So that is how we bid the labor. Obviously, we are high because we estimate it takes twice as long to set the same amount of tile.
As we move forward we are paying the correct wage but have no idea what a fair amount of tile to install is.
I was amazed when I first got here and the guys took all week with a 600 foot floor with 4 people. Back home we do that in 2 days.

So we are trying to figure out what the union quotas would be. I am sure the expect a guy to do more that 1 tub a day but are there any real hard numbers or quota guidelines? we want to be able to compete and motivate or revamp our workforce. We even want to reward for jobs that come in above a certain margin.

Is there really such a thing as Uninion quotas?

[John Bridge]

Hi Tom,

I've always tried to pay people what they're worth. I don't think there is any type of non-union scale. You get a good setter who can make you some money you want to pay him well. And of course if you run onto somebody who isn't making the boss a dollar, down the road he (or she) goes.

When you say a tub hop how is it being done? Mud? Backer board? When I worked for wages my helper and I could do two mud tubs in 7 hours. We got paid for 8.

[Dave Gobis]

If you start filling out wage reports and file them with the state they get averaged into union scale on Davis Bacon. You can file on any job that can be verified.

[chesterflick]

I was looking to see if the Union had quotas. I have heard yes and no. If you dont put in enough you are disciplined and if you outshine others and do more you are also disciplined.
We are starting an incentive program of sorts. It's like profit-sharing, except its a real-time thing as opposed to waiting 20 years. Trying to figure what a fair amount of tile to stick in would be. I know it varies but being that the last 30 years all I have seen are subcontractors so its an unknown thing for me. I can guess but don't want to be wrong.
Also, once the word gets out that we are paying everyone the prevailing wage plus a bonus I think we will be able to solve manpower issues as we grow.
Are there quotas?

[Autoplay]

In the late 90’s,unionshop I worked for in cal,wanted 5 tub hops a day. Was 6x6 straight lay tile,one”recessed” soap dish,one corner mounted shampoo shelf. Was over cement board, using thin set. That was expected in an 8 hour day. I and one other guy were able to achieve 5 in a day,that was with no wasted moves,using hand cutter and stoning cuts. Only left room/s to make L cuts for fixtures. Helpers supplied tile,and mud when needed.

Eventually after two weeks,I and others gathered together,and talked amongst ourselves,and agreed to doing 4 a day(most couldn’t get 5 in a day). We assumed,estimator screwed up on another job(which we knew about)‘and was trying to make it up on the job we were on.

To answer what you’re asking….. lots of variables in play……type of tile/stone being involved,patterns etc,setting methods. There’s no real set in stone number.
That being said…..there use to be an unwritten rule of 300’ set in a day,but,that’s also in the day and age of basic materials…I.E. 4.25” tile,2x2 tile etc etc.

[Tiger Mountain Tile Inc]

What kind of tile are we talking on these tubs? I'm 4 days on a tub with LFT. Prep to grouted. One day to set seems optimistic, to me.

[Dave Gobis]

I've been Union apprenticed and ran a Union shop for many years. There is no official quota. That said some things are expected and if you achieve the target you can "bank" some hours. It varies by shop.