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Unread 12-06-2019, 08:14 AM   #1
chesterflick
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Commercial Tile installation question

Hey guys. I have one that I don’t run into to often.
I have several thousand feet of large format (12x24) porcelain to install on cast in place columns and walls. I have installed tile on pre cast panels before and we were required to hang lathe via hilt I system and install a conventional scratch coat and float the walls out flat. The columns and walls are horrible as far as tolerance goes and I am not so shire if the thin-set will even stick to the cast in place concrete which is slick.
I have looked for guidance in the TCNA handbook but can’t seem to find a decent enough reference for when the time comes to challenge the installation method with the contractor since it was not identified vie specification or on the plans. Thanks in advance..
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Unread 12-06-2019, 09:12 AM   #2
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You seem to indicate that you already have a contract for this installation, Tom, but I'm curious how you won the bid without knowing what the project entailed.

I would say the time is now to submit a written request for information if the plans and specifications do not cover the work you're expected to do.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 09:59 AM   #3
chesterflick
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i work for a large flooring company. We have people who estimate, sell and manage projects. As a site superintendent i have to argue stuff all the time with my own company. It can be exhausting sometimes. I have no idea what we as a company bid as far as means and methods from job to job and only know what I am getting into when I show up. I have to argue something as simple as EJ 171 on almost every job with my own company.The salesmen roll the dice since they make a %.
Why bother following EJ171 when I can just slather a liquid applied membrane on a control joint, maybe add a little fabric and Abracadabra just like magic I have just solved one of the biggest failures in the ceramic tile Trade. So when I am forced to use my magic wand and do it the wrong way I back it up with documentation to protect myself from the greed of others.
So now that I have let you in on my frustration I was only asking for guidance on a TCNA method to assure that I can refer to. The walls and the columns are in horrible shape and are so far out of tolerance it would make Gobis weep.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 10:36 AM   #4
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I would say,build the columns and columns with metal studs and CBU / firecode gyproc for proper support for the 12x24.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 10:56 AM   #5
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Unless you're proposing to tile Mt. Rushmore with gauged porcelain panels you ain't likely to make ol' Gobis weep.

I think your problem is in-house, Tom. If your estimator bid the job, he must have bid with some method in mind. Do you not have even that information available to you?

A bit late to be creating a tiling method on behalf of the customer. Do the plans not give even a hint beyond "put tile here?"

Sounds like one of the masonry wall installation methods in the TCNA Handbook could be used, but who is expected to determine which one fits withing the confines of your bid budget? W211, W221, or W222 would seem adaptable to your description of the project, no? Or a specialty epoxy spot bonding, such as in W219?

Somebody in your end of the project must have had something in mind to even have bid the job. I think you'd want at least to find out what that "something" might have been.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 11:58 AM   #6
chesterflick
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Ha. Yeah they always have something in mind. Usually wrong. I should have to fight what to do with control joints on every job but I do. Thanks for the help.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 01:09 PM   #7
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With a form release on it, thin set may not even bond> does it take water? (absorb? )
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Unread 12-06-2019, 05:51 PM   #8
thuffner3
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Hey Tom,
Sounds like a Mapei Primgrip primer,
Then butterball 2 opposite sides,
When cured fill in the edges with your favorite mortar.
We hot met glue schluter on our corners and fit to completion.

I work for the same type of flooring Co, here in Cincy
and its always a pain to educate contractors, designers, and architects.
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Her contractor said she could have it installed today.
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Unread 12-06-2019, 07:22 PM   #9
Tool Guy - Kg
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I’m with Eric. Does it absorb water?
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Unread 01-03-2020, 10:20 AM   #10
MAPEItyler
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I believe the substrate requirements for concrete / masonry you are looking for can be found in ANSI A108.01 General Requirement: Subsurfaces and Preparation by Other Trades.
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