FishDug's master bathroom renovation

[FishDug]

Hello,

We are going to renovate our master bathroom including replacing the floor, shower, and tub/spa area tile. I redid the tile in our guest and pool bathrooms but I don't have the time available off work to redo the master bathroom tile within the timeframe required to please she who must be obeyed.

Therefore I am trying to find a tile installer in the east central florida area. I really wanted to have a kerdi/noble shower in the master bathroom like I installed in the pool bathroom however we are having an very difficult time finding a tile installer experienced with kerdi/noble that we are otherwise comfortable with. We have gotten estimates from 6 tile installers (between $2800-$10500, not including the tile) and only one of them seemed to know what he was talking about regarding Kerdi, however he kind of rubbed us the wrong way.

One of the tile guys we do like uses Mapei AquaDefense to waterproof showers. Basic internet research seems to indicate that AquaDefense is a reasonable shower waterproofing system if installed properly.

I was wondering what the professionals think about Mapei AquaDefense?

Thanks.

PS: Here's my pool bath renovation: http://www.onewolf.org/Album/HomePro...eno/index.html

[dhagin]

A.D.'s been discussed a few times in the Pro's Hangout. Here ya go.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...archid=5590853

[PetrH]

I use it all the time, usually in combination with Kerdi for the shower pan and 2 inches up the walls. If installed properly, with the glass fabric in the corners, it is a great system. In a simple square shower, both AD and Kerdi take about the same amount of time to install, but in a complex shower with niches, benches, etc. the AD is much faster.

[MarkTarkus]

I have done dozens of showers with Aqua Defense and am very confident in it as a waterproofer and as a shower pan when installed correctly. I also do Kerdi showers and like others, hybrid showers mixing the 2 products.

Get references and look at pictures of their work.

Where specifically are you in FLA? I'd bet we have a forum member nearby.

[Levi the Tile Guy]

I love Aqua D it is a great product and dries very fast. If prepped correctly underneath you don't even need the mesh in the corners or on the pan.

[FishDug]

Thanks for all the replies.

As for the question of where I am located, it's near Sanford/Heathrow. A couple weeks ago I posted a message on the "Professionals hangout" forum looking for a referral for tile installers that do kerdi/noble in this area and I got two names (non members). One of the guys estimate was beyond absurd and the other guy didn't seem overly interested in the getting the job (he didn't pay attention to any of the details I described, he provided no references/pictures, his proposal document contained no details of the work to be done, etc).

The guy my wife and I liked best uses AquaDefense for waterproofing which seems like a reasonable waterproofing system if installed correctly. His estimate was right in the middle $ wise and he provided referrals for their prior projects.

A little more background: My wife and I had gotten 3 estimates for retiling the master bathroom about 2 years ago, but we decided to postpone the project until now (In the interim I have renovated the guest and pool bathrooms). I got 4 new estimates in the last couple of weeks. The job consists of demoing floor (~125 sq ft), shower (~110 sq ft) spa/tub area (~30 sq ft), rebuilding shower (and replacing valve), and installing new porcelain tile. All contractors have indicated 5 days +- 1 day. The estimates we have gotten are (not including new tile):

$2600
$2800
$3300
$3800
$4500
$5200
$12,500

[PetrH]

I think that 5 days is a very optimistic estimate, unless there are two people working on it. I think I am very good at what I do and to tear out and re build a shower properly would be a 5 day project. 4 days if we are dealing with an acrylic shower pan, 6 days with a nice niche and decorative mosaic borders. That still leaves the floor and tub to deal with. Had to laugh at the last price. If a contractor thinks he can get $2000/day to show up, I want to buy his business.

[FishDug]

I think most of these estimates assumed a two person team (Lead/Helper) and I agree that 5 days seems aggressive, but I'm an ignorant newbie who is not so wiae in the ways of tile.

Based on my little bit of tiling experience, I estimated it would take me 14 full days to complete this tile adventure. Which means it would probably take me more like 21 days. I cannot afford to inflict that on Mrs FishDug.

Not to mention if I take two weeks off 'real' work, I would rather be fishing or diving somewhere.

[Gordon Kaske]

I would be interested in knowing what the high bidder is doing for the extra mile.


Look at bids carefully make sure you are apples to apples. Ask questions.

[FishDug]

All the estimates include all the same basic tasks (demo vanities/old floor/shower/tub tile, rebuild shower/tub area, install new tile, remove all debris, etc), but where they differ is how the shower/tub would be rebuilt. Some specify _no_ waterproof treatment "Why you want that? You no need that.", a couple specify PVC liners and liquid water proofing, and two actually include Kerdi installs (but just the labor, they do not include the actual Kerdi products).

I am amazed and astonished at how hard it has been to find an actual tile installer that knows how to install Kerdi. The $12,500 estimate (from a GC)included Kerdi, but it was a wonderful "a friend of my tile sub-contractor has installed Kerdi". Yikes! Mr $12,500 left a voice message today asking for the status of his estimate. I may ask him if his proposal includes 57 strippers or something.

[Right Touch Tile N.C.]

My thoughts are that if you like AD, pay a few more dollars and get Mapelastic HPG, made by the same company but its a better product and also use the fabric that goes along with the system and you will be sleeping like a baby worry free.

[jwmezzanotte]

Mapeilastic HPG is cheaper here than Aqua-d.
I'm moving away from the HPG to the Aqua-d because of the dry times. I don't see how HPG is a better product. And the Aqua-d also has a fabric for treating corners etc if you so choose..

[Right Touch Tile N.C.]

Just to the naked eye, HPG goes on thicker where as it takes two coats of AD to mimic HPG. I may be wrong though, i have used a few hundred gallons of AD and since i started using HPG I havent looked back. The price is opposite here in my area, HPG is the more expensive product.

[Levi the Tile Guy]

HPG is an inferior product to Aqua D. It has to go on thicker (Aqua D has to be 20 mils between 2 coats, and Hpg has to be 50 mils), and HPG requires fabric. There is nothing wrong with using fabric with Aqua D, but it is not required. HPG is a better color though. Not that HPG is a bad product it just isn't as good IMO.

I think HPG to Aqua D is about the same as Hydro Barrier to Hydro Ban.

Aqua D beats HPG in just about every catagory.

Here are the spec sheets if you care to read them. Check the numbers at the bottom of both.

http://www.mapei.com/public/US/produ...nse_tds_ea.pdf

http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/prod...TDS_EA.pdf.pdf

[gueuzeman]

57 strippers? I didn't see any mention of wallpaper removal in this discussion so far.

Aqua-D is good stuff..Done right, they all work. Done wrong, none of them do.

5 days seems a bit overoptimistic to me, even for a 2 man crew.

.