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Old 03-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #1
irishexpat
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Weekend warrior attacked bathroom #2

So bathroom #2 is the master. The vanities are new and we like them, so in this room itís a removal and redo of the bathtub and shower, along with new flooring.

When we got the house it had a built in corner tub and the shower seen in the attached image. We are replacing the tub with a freestanding Victoria & Albert that I got for a song on Craigslist. The shower will be enlarged (there is 59Ē between the corner and the window on the long side, and 43Ē between the corner and the edge of the wall on the short side).

I removed the corner tub this weekend. I havenít pulled the shower yet, but there could be some water intrusion in the subfloor. So that might need replacing. Because this is our master, and because itís on the first floor with just an unfinished crawl space underneath, and because I might need to patch the subfloor anyway, Iím thinking about a curbless shower. Can anyone talk me out of it?

If I drop the subfloor under the shower, how do I do it? I see 2 basic options: the first is to sister the joists with shorter members and notch out what I need. This seems like the wrong choice. The second choice would be to cut out the joists under the shower, install a full height piece at each end of the cut joists, and then bridge the center with new shortest joists. If I do that, should the new joists run parallel or perpendicular to the existing joists? Are there any special considerations because this wall is an exterior wall and there wonít be much (if any) joist left on the back end of the shower?

Ok, so after curbless I think Iíll stick with a center drain (no need to do everything crazy). My plan is to use those sloped sticks to make sure my mud pan goes in right. Itíll be my first one. Over that Iíll be using kerdi on the whole thing, then putting hexagon tile on the floor and subway on the walls.

In terms of shower fixtures, Iíll be doing at least 1 kerdi niche in the 12x28 size. Iíd prefer on to use the included shelf insert, but instead use some kind of tile so I can get 3 shelvesó2 tall ones and a short one. Any tips on that? Beyond the niches, Iím planning on building in a hand shower along with the regular shower head. I was thinking of using a control like this one: Delta Faucet T27897 Cassidy Traditional Monitor 17 Series Valve Trim with 3-Setting Integrated Diverter, Chrome https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M2XAHPZ..._wmDPAb4PKA5CQ has anyone had any experiences with them? Because the current piping is all copper Iím planning on transitioning to pex to route the new handshowrr, and perhaps also to move the valve closer to the shower door.

Iím currently reaching out to some local spots for shower doors. For whatever reason, I feel like getting that professionally installed is a good idea...but weíll see what the cost is. Iíve already been quoted $1500 for frameless doors online that Iíd have to install myself, so that will definitely be the most expensive single part of this job.

For the tub, Iím looking at something like Kingston Brass CCK268C Vintage Deck Mount Claw Foot Faucet Package, 6-Inch, Polished Chrome https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AAJ5LM..._QpDPAb6MVC4D0 for the hardware. Iím sure itís not the highest quality but the tub wonít see too much use. We all know how tubs go... Iíll have to reconfigure the drain and Iíll probably have to use pex to reconfigure the supply pipes as well.

The last thing Iím thinking about is ventilation. Right now the room only has a single fan directly above the toilet, but thatís in an alcove and the rest of the room has cathedral ceilings and no ventilation. Iím thinking about getting 1 (or 2?) of these fans, since the wall above the shower is an exterior wall and with the cathedral ceilings I donít know if I could even do one on the ceiling if I wanted. Has anyone had any experience with these fans: Broan 509 Through-Wall Fan, 180 CFM 6.5 Sones, White Square Plastic Grille https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WT8FOM..._mtDPAb58QC259

Alright, I think thatís all the planning and questions Iíve got. Thanks for reading!
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:20 PM   #2
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Hi Ray, the first thing would be to figure out if the shower will be replaced or not. If so, the size can be made bigger if you would like. Just a matter of making the shower and tub fit in the space you have.

I can't help you with your hardware or fans but I would avoid using the plastic sloped sticks in the mud bed.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:07 AM   #3
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A 6.5 sone fan is going to be insanely noisy.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:56 PM   #4
irishexpat
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Can you recommend another fan that I can mount on an exterior wall and put straight through? There arenít a lot of options. Alternatively, could I get a ceiling mounted one and put it on the wall?

The room is 11x13 and has cathedral ceilings, so I assumed I would need a fairly big fan.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
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Here are some more pictures of the cathedral ceiling. I was thinking of putting the fan either directly above the shower or up in the right ďcubbyĒ of the cathedral.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:40 PM   #6
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The most pressing thing right now is dropping the floor.

This contractor seems to think that notching and sistering the joists is acceptable: http://legaleaglecontractors.com/how...advanced-caps/

My location is right up at one edge of the span, so maybe that would be ok. Iím also attaching 2 pictures I found showing the 2 different options I have. Any feedback welcomed about any of the questions I have...
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:24 AM   #7
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Check out Panasonic fans.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:08 PM   #8
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yeah but those top out under 100cfm for a wall fan and I need 200cfm based on my calculations...so chaining 2 or 3 would be my only option.


as you can see in the last pictures i put up (with the door and vanity mirror), there is an open area between the master bath and the adjacent master walk in closet, which has a similar set of 'alcoves'. I think I might just put one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV-.../dp/B000EDUIX2 in the leftmost alcove above the closet and then just run ducting over to the bathroom side alcove. its gonna require cutting some holes in that drywall but I avoid trying to shoehorn a fan into a very visible area with no good options...

any thoughts on the best way to reinforce the joists?
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:59 PM   #9
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Ray,

Normally we double the last two whole joints on the left and right sides, then double the perpendicular joist, esp when cutting that many joists.

At this point I'd be adding a perpendicular beam below the cut joists. Or two
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:12 PM   #10
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so you're in the "cut, header, and replace with new joist" camp, not the "notch and sister" camp?

and when you say "adding a perpendicular beam below the cut joists" do you mean attaching a 2x4 on the wider surface to the bottom of the joists to create a half-I beam, or do you mean a beam running perpendicular to the joists, and attached to...something...
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:13 PM   #11
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I mean adding piers and a beam below the joists
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:50 PM   #12
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Can you provide a description of your joists including the joist size, spacing and span, along with the location of the area to be lowered? Also, species and grade if you know them?

E.g. Douglas Fir #2 2x10s at 16" o.c. spanning 10' 4", with the area to be lower measuring 5' parallel to the joists and 4' perpendicular to the joists, starting at 3' from one end of the span. Those are just numbers I made up.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:52 PM   #13
irishexpat
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the Joists are 2x10 and 16Ē oc. The notch will be 4í parallel with the joists and 5í perpendicular to the joists. I believe the span is around 11í and the notches will be all the way at one end of the joists (shower is against exterior wall).

I might be able to get a look at wood species when I open up the floor this weekend and get a perfect span calc. Although Iím sure 11í is close to accurate since itís a 22í long extension on the side of the house.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:10 AM   #14
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OK, 5' perpendicular to the joists, at 16" o.c., you'll probably be notching 4 joists, you might get lucky and only need to notch 3. I suggest you use the notch and sister method, rather than reframing the area with a header joist and double trimmer joists. Full length sisters with bearing would be best.

When you notch the joists, you definitely want to avoid any overcutting, and you also want to avoid a sharp 90 corner in the notch. Simplest would be to drill, say, a 1/2" diameter hole at each corner location, and then make your horizontal and vertical notch cuts tangent to these corner circles. The little fillet of remaining material in the corner should reduce the stress concentration in the corner and the resulting tendency of cracks to start there.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:14 AM   #15
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Iím actually with you now, especially since I think the span is less than 12ft. If I can sister across the whole span I feel comfortable with that. Should I sister on 1 side or both?
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