Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-2018, 02:54 PM   #1
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Hydro ban on concrete curbless shower Questions

HI! I'm new here but have been lurking for a bit.

I am installing a curbless shower in my basement on a concrete slab. I have already cut through the concrete in order to center the drain, create a proper slope and to install the Hydro ban bonded flange.

Before I move forward I want to be sure I am doing things correctly, therefore, I have a few unanswered questions.

1) Should I fill the entire area that I cut out from the concrete with deck mud (5 parts sand to 1 part cement)? I have been told to do so but have read that a deck mud bed should be no thicker than 2.5 inches and I have 3-4 inches to fill. This includes 1" of top gravel.

2) The laticrete site states that I should put my backer board in first then lay the deck mud but they are showing a curbed shower over a plywood sub straight. I am assuming its best not to install the backer board first in my situation as the dirt and gravel are the sub straight for my deck mud.

3) I'm also having trouble figuring out how much lower than level my drain pipe should be cut in order for the hydo ban drain flange to sit at the proper sloped height as there are no adjustments once it is glued. I just don't want to mess this up!
Attached Images
  
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-12-2018, 10:10 PM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 20,461
Welcome to the forum, Steven.

First question before we get going: Has the portion of slab that you removed to access the plumbing been repaired with a concrete mix? Or is that just gravel fill that I’m seeing in your second picture?

__________________
Tonto Goldstein….. but my friends call me Bubba
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 10:35 PM   #3
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks

No concrete, just filled with dirt and a top layer of gravel. Also, once I leveled the gravel I measured the depth of the hole. It's 3" deep.
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 05:53 PM   #4
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,895
By 'dirt' do you mean soil? (sand + silt + clay with organic material )
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 06:05 PM   #5
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
By dirt I mean the stuff that was under the concrete. It seemed pretty clean any big rocks I discarded. I then laid 1" of pebble/gravel on top of that.
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 06:08 PM   #6
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,895
You can make drypack as thick as you need. Adding 2 inch welded wire mesh will help.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 04:49 PM   #7
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks Houston Remodeler

Would 1.5" pitch in a 38x38 area look too abrupt? This is what I cut the pipe down to but now I'm having second thoughts. What pitch would you do in an area this size?
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 07:50 PM   #8
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 12,494
Unless you're doing a pebble stone floor, you want a minimum of 1/4" per foot slope to the drain. If using pebbles, you'd want it a bit steeper so the irregular pebbles didn't end up trapping moisture.

I'd want to tie the patch into the slab in some manner so that they can't rise/fall independently. I'd drill some holes, epoxy in some rebar and install a base of concrete, then make your mudbed slope on top of that. I'd also put a moisture barrier down underneath all of that so that ground water couldn't rise up underneath, but that may not buy you much if the rest of the floor doesn't already have one and you can't tie into an existing one. You might say I go overboard...some soils expand/contract with moisture content (anything with any clay in it), and if the two parts aren't tied together, it could cause issues down the road.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 09:36 AM   #9
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks jadnashua, I'm not sure what I will be using but It will be some form of tile, not pebbles.

I guess I am going to have to add a PVC coupling and extend the pipe another .75 inches to get back to .75 pitch.
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 08:34 PM   #10
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 20,461
Usually when you cut into a slab for plumbing work, you go out of your way to make sure the new patch is well supported from below so it doesn’t drop in elevation. For starters, you generally fill the void left by dirt with stone material that doesn’t like to compress. After packing that in place, you use re-bar like Jim said and pour concrete of an equal depth to the existing slab.

I’d be nervous that your dirt fill is nowhere near as compacted as the surround soil. Did you go out of you way to compact the dirt as you filled?

__________________
Tonto Goldstein….. but my friends call me Bubba
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2018, 09:09 AM   #11
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
I used a tamper for the fill.

How far apart should the rebar be placed, how far should they stick into the old and how much should stick out for the new for the new to get a solid joint?
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2018, 01:07 PM   #12
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 9,812
Steven, I usually do a 3/8" pitch on most shower floors. 1/4" per foot doesn't seem to be enough.

Anyway, assuming you're doing the same, you would measure from the pipe to the furthest corner of the shower and multiply the distance in feet times 3/8". Three feet of distance would require 1 1/8" of drop to the drain. Use a 4' level to measure the drop.

To get the drain pipe cut at the proper height, I usually dry-fit the drain in place, then measure how much too high it is at that point. Then cut off the appropriate amount of the riser to bring it down to the proper height. If in doubt on your measurement, remember you can always cut off more, but when you cut off too much it's a lot more trouble to add some back.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 03:37 PM   #13
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Deckmud: What determines the maximum thickness recommended?

I was reading the Quickrete sand and Topping, they state 2" is the maximum thickness that should be used. I was hoping to fill in a 3.5" area but I am not sure if the reason they suggest 2" max is because that is the typical max needed for most related applications or if it loses its strength/ stability past that point. Hoping someone could fill me in.
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 05:31 PM   #14
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,895
Where are you putting this? For the upper layer of a shower floor, 2 inches is what most drains allow.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 05:44 PM   #15
rufunky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
It's for a curbless shower in a basement where I had to break through the concrete slab.
__________________
Steven
rufunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the maximum thickness of deck mud at the wall? Julian Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 05-05-2012 06:59 PM
Deckmud psi ? scuttlebuttrp Professionals' Hangout 5 05-15-2008 08:21 PM
Maximum Thickness For Layer of Fat Mud MarshallHouTx Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 03-13-2008 06:52 AM
Maximum mud bed thickness John K Professionals' Hangout 13 12-19-2006 05:49 PM
Maximum grout thickness for Saltillo JDA10 Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 05-09-2006 03:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:59 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC