Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 03-28-2010, 02:22 PM   #1
Glen Radovich
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Kitchen/pantry floor in soapstone-multiple issues

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. I have done some searches and am still in need of some expert advice.

We are gutting our kitchen and butlers pantry, which are connected. I would like to do a tile floor, preferably untreated soapstone, and include radiant heat in the job.

Here are the issues:

The current floor is a glue down engineered 3/4" floor, which is over 3/4" plywood, which is over 3/4" original hardwood strip flooring, over original t&g 3/4" plank subfloor. I have plenty of height to lose to enable radiant and a mud job without having saddle issues. I might even be lower.

Whether I do soapstone or ceramic tile, my tile installer recommended I have the flooring removed and leave the original subfloor in, provided it is in decent shape. The heating guy would install the tubing and then my tile person said he would just do a nice mud job over same which would have the added benefit of leveling the floor, which really sails off to one end of the house. This sounds reasonable to me, but I keep reading about ditra here and I'm not sure what benefit this has over mud. I understand its benefits over gypcrete and the like.

Any feedback appreciated as to the best way for me to approach this. If the radiant portion complicates things, I can go back to baseboard, but would rather not. My tile guy says this is done all the time and the floor would work perfectly. He has done 3 bathrooms for me in mud, with no ditra, and they all look great.

Thanks for reading this long post.

Glen
__________________
Glen
Glen Radovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 03-28-2010, 02:51 PM   #2
Crestone Tile
Gonzo!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,315
Hi Glen,

TCNA recommendations require an anti-fracture or uncoupling membrane over hydronic systems. Having said though, TCNA methods only include gypsum, concrete, and SLC in there methods. Heated floors add thermal stress to the tile / stone installation and can compromise the bond. There are many installation out there that are done without a membrane and lasting without troubles. There are also many installations done without a membrane and failing miserably. It's your bet to make.
__________________
Matt

"Shut it down!"
Crestone Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #3
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,578
Welcome, Glen.

You're mixing some methods there when it comes to published standards, as Matt points out.

And you can't technically do anything over a sawn board subfloor without first you install some plywood.

Not to say it isn't done, of course.

If you wanna do the hydronics over the board floor, you really should consider the closest published method, which requires you fill to the tops of the tubes with mud, install a cleavage membrane, then a minimum of 1 1/4" of mud with reinforcing mesh in the vertical center of the mud.

I know folks have done that with just 2.5lb metal lath over the filled tubes and a minimum of 3/4" of mud over that, but for a kitchen that would be pretty iffy in my book.

And I'd want an uncoupling membrane over any of it just because of the heating system.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2010, 06:52 PM   #4
Glen Radovich
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Thanks for your responses guys. If I didn't do the radiant piping, would that mean a typical mud job over plywood be sufficient and not require the membrane?

Glen
__________________
Glen
Glen Radovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2010, 07:17 PM   #5
Crestone Tile
Gonzo!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,315
Hi Glen,

Depends what you mean by "typical" ...

A proper mud job would be:

3/4" minimum of drypack over 2.5# galvanized expanded metal lath that is fastened over a cleavage membrane to the substrate

or

1 1/4" minimum of drypack with wire reinforcing suspended in the mud bed over a cleavage membrane.
__________________
Matt

"Shut it down!"
Crestone Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kitchen grout cleaning issues kara236 Cleaning, Restoration and Sealing 7 08-06-2009 07:09 PM
Kit floor, multiple vinyls, mixed tile..... John-Charleston Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 06-24-2008 09:37 AM
old kitchen--tile issues txgalal Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 02-21-2007 09:57 PM
granite tile countertop against pantry friborg11 Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 12-09-2006 07:59 PM
little kitchen = big issues orangejulie Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 05-04-2005 08:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC