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Old 07-07-2018, 12:10 PM   #16
VeeLynn
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The drain is three parts -- the bottom flange and the clamping ring are the two that you see in the pics. The bolts were loosened and the clamping ring removed BEFORE I put a thin layer of Redgard just around the bottom edge. The tape was then placed to cover just the edge so the weep holes and bolts were not affected. After that I put a thin layer on top of the tape again not plugging the weep holes or the bolts, going up and over the divot. After that dried, I put a small bead of silicone around the edge of the top clamping ring and applied it to the bottom flange, twisted it in and tightened the bolts.

I had a lot of loose sand and lumps on the mudbed that I attempted to sweep up before putting down the 1st layer of Redgard. I noticed more of them as I was doing it but I wasn't able to sweep them up so I just rolled the coating over them.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:13 PM   #17
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That is why I think putting another SMOOTH LAYER of something would help this. Drying it out with a fan I've done OVER AND OVER with the same poor result.

I'm tired of wasting everyone's time. Thanks for your replies.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:31 PM   #18
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Vee, we all volunteer our time because we like helping people with their tile projects. If you want to remove the RG and mud bed and start over, we can help answering questions along the way. That's what we do so it's not a waste of our time.

Since you don't need this bathroom, it might be best to step away from it for a few days/weeks and regroup. If you do plan to start over, I'd go ahead and tear it all out and let it dry out well.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:54 PM   #19
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That mud bed looks way too rough. I would scrape the redgard off the mud bed best you can. Let it dry for a week and then skim it with some modified thinset. I like to use a big dry wall knife and get it as smooth as possible. Fill all gaps with thinset.

Dont use the alkaline mesh tape as an alternative to fabric. Use fabric at the clamping drain and all corners. I like to use a drywall knife for the first coat so you can really work it into the surface and then roll it smooth. Give that coat a day to dry and make sure there is nothing wet looking before the next coat.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:19 PM   #20
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Vee said, "I had a lot of loose sand and lumps on the mudbed that I attempted to sweep up before putting down the 1st layer of Redgard. I noticed more of them as I was doing it but I wasn't able to sweep them up so I just rolled the coating over them".

I usually do the vacuum test. If the vacuum causes the mud to erode then it needs to be replaced. I also like skim coating with thinset to add a hard coat on top but if a broom or paint roller (with RG) causes the mud to erode, the trowel and thinset over the mud would do the same thing. I agree, the mud is too rough.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:58 AM   #21
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Thank you for your time and replies. I'm sorry I went off half-cocked but I'm just really tired of this not going smoothly (pun?) for me. I'm resentful that I was forced to do this myself because people that I hired to do it bailed on me and I couldn't find anyone to replace them. That's a lot of my frustration with this. I'm at the point in my life where I'm making a decent living so I'm of the mindset that I shouldn't have to do this myself since I can afford to pay people to do it; but if there's no one available it doesn't matter, does it?

I think the plan now is to just step away from this for a few days and then start again. I will try to scrape up as much RG as I can get up, and let the mudbed dry out a bit. Then I will put on a thin layer of thinset and let that dry. If it doesn't dry, then I know I have to get the mudbed out and do that over. I want to avoid that if possible, so I will try to preserve it at this point. If the thinset cures without issue, then I will buy a third gallon of RG and use fabric at the joints/seams and see what happens.

Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:50 AM   #22
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Vee, the mud needs to be hard enough not to crumble as easily as it did before. Deck mud (dry pack) doesn't get as hard as concrete but does need to stay together without falling apart when you roll the RG on. The last batch may have been mixed too dry or lacked enough Portland cement for it to get hard enough. When you start to remove the RG, some of the mud will want to come up with it. Adding a skim coat of thinset over a mud bed is fine but you'll need much more than a skim coat to fix your mud and doing that with thinset is not going to give you good results. I would advise you to remove the mud bed to the slab and start over.

Before getting started again, lets go over the mud mixture you used and make sure you get that right. Some installers like using Mapei's 4 to 1 mix that can be bought at Floor and Décor. I'm not a huge fan of it but it will get hard, that's for sure.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:22 AM   #23
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The mudbed: portland cement and sand. I mixed up two batches - each batch had two bags of 50 lb sand and about 1/3 portland 80 lb bag in it. So the ratio was 100 lbs sand to about 25 lbs portland so between 5:1 and 4:1. It was mixed with about 3 qts of water each to the consistency of damp sand that stuck together with no extra water. I watched a few videos on how to mix it.

I did it in two batches because I was afraid I wouldn't have enough time to get it in before it started to dry. I packed it in as best as I could using a 2 x 4
with a hammer, and sloped it 1/2" per foot. I initially wanted to put in a linear drain, but after the drain was moved it ended up being too far off for that so ended up going with a round drain. I don't think the slope is too much. It looks ok to me.

During this time, I could only work on it during the weekends, so after the mudbed was put in, it was there undisturbed for a week (6 days). I did think it was odd that it never changed color at all. It was a dark gray color and it remained dark gray (even now). I don't know if that's a clue to anything, but every video it seemed to lighten up after it dried so perhaps there was too much water put in when it was mixed, or perhaps the ratio was too far off - I don't know.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:06 AM   #24
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Usually cement will lighten up in color, no matter what type of mud it is although some brands will lighten up more than others. So, too much water in the mix should still lighten up some. Just the way it eroded, that is a sign of not enough water or Portland. Or, that the Portland was too old. You don't have to beat the mud to death, just tamp it with a block or trowel a few licks and move on.

If you take it all out, that would be the time to change over to a sheet membrane installation if you want to change. You will have to stick with the paint on membrane if you keep the divot method.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:29 AM   #25
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I removed the uncured areas of RG and it was squishy pink underneath. The mudbed is firm - not crumbly - so I suspect I just didn't allow the RG to dry properly. I peeled down to the mudbed and it didn't come up with the RG. It is sandy on top but when I scratch it with any tool it doesn't come up or break up at all. I didn't clean it up enough before I started waterproofing --

I have the box fan on it and won't look at it until Saturday. Ya, right. Ok, well I will let it dry and see what happens.

So, the combination of too much sand on the surface of the mudbed and not allowing RG to cure completely is my guess on why I continued to have difficulty. Now I will let it dry for 6 days, then prime the entire surface with 4:1 water:RG, let that dry, then lay fabric on the entire floor over a thin layer of RG, let that dry overnight, then put a top layer of RG and let that dry. After that I will see where I am. If there are any areas that are still pinkish after a few days of drying, I will peel it back up immediately and try again. I won't do another flood test until the entire floor is red.

If all of this fails, then I will peel it all off and skim thinset and try again. Ugh.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:42 AM   #26
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Okay. Good to hear the mud is in good shape. Like I mentioned before, a skim coat of thinset can be used to fill in any shallow divots. That needs to be done before you apply the RG. I would vacuum the mud first and let it dry out. If the mud is still wet after several days, I would stop and figure out where the water is coming from. Once it's dry then you can apply the thinset but make sure the surface is dry before putting down the RG. A couple days is usually all that's needed for the mud to dry out.

I like the idea of using the fabric over the whole floor and up the walls several inches.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:15 PM   #27
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Questions and suggestions

If your slope is rough (the photos make it appear that way) then you can use a thin layer of thinset (mixed to a slurry) to fill your more major imperfections. HOWEVER, -cringe- I would remove the current liquid WPM (water proof membrane, i.e. RedGuard, Laticrete) before applying the slurry (then, letting it dry before applying a new coat(s) of WPM with fabric at all transitions).

Questions:
1 - Have you used fabric or mesh tape (like that to tape cement board seams)? These are two completley different materials. Use fabric with RedGuard at ALL transitions. Laticrete does not require it, but many professionals err on the side of caution and use it for the shower pan transitions, including drains. I like to use a small bead of 100% silicone on all my inside corners/transitions before applying my liquid WPM; I believe it slightly smooths the transition to make it more resistant to tearing, though, I only have anecdotal evidence as "proof."
2 - Have you carried your WPM from your slope up the walls and over your curb? (not to insult your intelligence, just covering bases)
3 - Have you verified the drain flange to drain pipe connection point is not leaking? Would not be the first time I have found this to be the culprit.

You have to determine WHERE you have a leak(s). The pink areas could be an indication of many things: thicker WPM, pin holes, low spots retaining water. I would recommend performing leak tests at varying levels (starting with the least amount of water). Perform the first test with your water level just covering a little more than your divot. Then, just shy of your slope/wall/curb transitions (to check the field for pin holes). Then, up to just shy of the edge of your curb. This process of elimination may help you identify your problem.

When reapplying your liquid WPM keep this in mind. In order to get the proper thickness of your liquid WPM it can be applied with a 1/4"x3/16", V-notched trowel in two separate coats (first coat (initially burn in, as with thinset) with notched side of trowel (at 45 degree angle), all in the same direction on each plane (slope, inside of curb and up walls to height of curb. Now, let it dry), second coat with flat side of trowel, apply your liquid WPM to fill the furrows left by the first (DRIED) coat (drag flat side of trowel at an angle to tops of furrows to remove excess. Then, let it dry). Now, leak test.

Everything I know I have learned from someone else, or through experience. The problem with experience, though, it is what you get right after you need it. I am not glad it is you, but I am glad it is not me...this time. Chin up, you can do it!
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:13 AM   #28
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Angry

Since my last post, I have removed as much of the RG as I could, ripping up the areas in particular that were pink. I dried out the mudbed for several days with a fan. Then I let it sit for a couple of days and it was dry to the touch. I cleaned it up a bit, then got a third gallon of RedGard and applied it to the floor, let it dry overnight, then every evening I would apply one or two strips of the fabric and coat with RG and dry overnight. This took about a week. My last strips of fabric were done Friday after work. Saturday morning I applied a thin coat to the entire floor, and just finished a flood test. FAILED AGAIN!!! OMG!!!! It HAS to be the curb because that's exactly where the water seeps out - the front edge on the right. I used a kerdi corner there and I think somehow it isn't seated correctly or something. I will let this mess dry another week and then put more fabric on that specific corner.

To answer the last person to post: I used tape in the drain area as previously described in earlier posts. I am now using fabric from Laticrete for the shower floor. I used silicone to seal the drain clamp. I can't see what you wrote so I can't answer specifically because my memory is like swiss cheese. I appreciate your post and will review it after I post this one. I'm just so freaking frustrated with this it's incredible. I just want to finish this and get my house back in order!!! I HATE THOSE FREAKING CONTRACTORS THAT JUST LEFT ME HANGING!!!! UGH!!!!
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:24 AM   #29
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When installing the fabric, you cut a piece of fabric to size, roll on Redgard in that area and lay the fabric in the wet RG, then immediately add more RG over the fabric with the paint roller. Then move on to the next strip or piece of fabric overlapping the last piece. You want to avoid wrinkles in the fabric. You do this until you have the shower floor, curb and up the walls covered for 4-6 inches. Once these areas are covered in fabric and RG, you are done with the fabric. Each day you just add more RG coats. You're making it sound like you're installing a strip of fabric each day.

I'm trying to figure out why a Kerdi corner was used.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:42 PM   #30
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I wanted to let the RedGard dry thoroughly which is why I didn't do the fabric strips all at once. I was afraid I would overlap and there would be areas that didn't cure (like before). I was trying to avoid that.
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